Lorne Brown:
By listening to the Conscious Fertility Podcast, you agree to not use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or others. Consult your own physician or healthcare provider for any medical issues that you may be having. This entire disclaimer also applies to any guest or contributors to the podcast. Welcome to Conscious Fertility, the show that listens to all of your fertility questions so that you can move from fear and suffering to peace of mind and joy. My name is Lorne Brown. I’m a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine and a clinical hypnotherapist. I’m on a mission to explore all the paths to peak fertility and joyful living. It’s time to learn how to be and receive so that you can create life on purpose.
I want to welcome Michelle Oravitz to the Conscious Fertility Podcast today. She is a fellow of the Acupuncture and TCM Board of Reproductive Medicine and is the founder of the Wholesome Lotus Clinic and also host of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Interesting. Her path to holistic healing began with her own career as an architect and inspired by her own transformation through Chinese medicine acupuncture. She now empowers women on their fertility journeys and she combines her unique background and deep expertise in traditional Chinese medicine. She’s also the author of The Way of Fertility, how to Awaken Your Reproductive Potential Through the Power of Ancient Wisdom. And Michelle and I actually know each other through the A BRM. We see each other on our private chat group and connected, but this is the first time we’re kind of meeting face-to-face over Zoom. So Michelle, nice to see you and welcome to the Conscious Fertility Podcast.

Michelle Oravitz:
It’s so nice to meet you too, Lorne, and thank you so much for having me today.

Lorne Brown:
You’ve written a book, you have a coaching program, you got it looks like an amazing clinic. I would love to kind of hear your story. How did you go from architect to Chinese medicine? What was your journey and particularly why fertility? I’m assuming your journey might have something to do with reproductive health then.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yes. So I started out as a patient and really from the time I was 17, well 13 I got my period, but 17 I went to the gynecologist because my periods were irregular. I would have three months in between periods and I knew something was off and I’m like, okay, maybe the first year it’s kind of normal, second year, third year, I’m like, okay, something’s off. So I remember my mom making an appointment thinking to myself, perfect, I’m going to go to the doctor. He’s going to give me a solution and he’s going to fix this. So I go there and he gives me the birth control pill and I was like, wait, what? I never knew that the birth control pill was used for anything other than birth control. And he said, well, this is going to get you your period regular. I said, well, what happens when I get off?
And he said, it’s going to go back to being irregular. And I was like, well, how does that make sense? Is there anything that I can do to change this other than doing this? And the answer was no. And basically I went on and off the birth control pill for years, same thing from many doctors, same solution. And at age 25, I think that was the time that I was off, I traveled for three months and I was like, I backpacked in Europe and went to Cuba. I was a nice little trip. And then I had kind of taken a break from work. I moved from the west coast to the east coast with architecture. The whole time I was away. I didn’t get my period and I wasn’t on the pill. I came home and I told my mom, listen, I got to do something different.
There’s got to be something. It was 25 at that point. And I think there was something about maybe my own internal biological clock, my intuition saying something has to change. This isn’t normal. So she had happened to find out about a really great acupuncturist. His name was Dr. Lee. He worked in Queens, New York. So we went to his house. He actually worked out of his basement, so he had two tables there. I walked in and I was so intrigued. You go in the first time I ever smelled like Chinese herbs. I’ve had an experience before where I just went once to a clinic school in San Francisco, but this was my first time really going consistently. And he asked me so many questions and all the details about my life, even my dreams, how I slept. And I was so fascinated. I’ve never experienced anything like it where somebody actually wanted to know so much about me.
And what’s interesting, Lorne, is the actual act of talking I feel like is the beginning of the healing when you’re able to speak and express yourself. And he was explaining to me how important the menstrual cycle was for a woman and how much it makes a difference. And I went to him, he gave me raw herbs, told me not to cook it in aluminum, make sure it’s like stainless steel or ceramic. So intrigued. I was so fascinated. It was like something within me awoke. He completely regulated my period and I was blown away. But it didn’t just end there. I also felt like I slept better. I felt like things would roll off my back. I didn’t feel as stressed out at work and it was just like things just load in my life. And I was like, this is so cool.

Lorne Brown:
You have flown receptivity. In our episode one we had with Randy Lewis, who we both know,

Michelle Oravitz:
I actually just listened to it and it was great.

Lorne Brown:
So she talks about flown receptivity because when you don’t have flown receptivity in the west we call it stress. And in our medicine we call it she stagnation and spiritual work often call it resistance, pain or disease manifest. So yeah, you had the flow because you were healthy. You were healthy on a mental physical level. And it’s neat when you said you regulated, your cycle got regulated. We often forget that when you use the birth control pill and you have a period, you’re not having a regular cycle because you’re not having an ovulatory cycle. So the bleeding is just so you feel good. And I think when I’ve talked to experts in the field, they could have made it and want to make it that there was no bleed. But I think back in the day, the church didn’t like that you need to have a bleed. So that was the only reason there was the bleed in the cycle to make it look like you’re having a cycle, but you’re not actually having a obligatory cycle. So when Dr. Lee worked with you, you started having obligatory cycles, which is what you do for other women now you help them have obligatory cycles.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yeah, and it’s interesting. I feel like that has become an acceptable fake out the bleed. The fake bleed, yeah, if you’re having a bleed, the birth control,

Lorne Brown:
We had Lyn Pryor on our podcast and she’s done a lot of research with progesterone and in her research through using progesterone and perimenopause and menopause, they’re monitoring the women. And she has noticed without birth control pill that on average two or three cycles in a year are not obligatory. Even with bleeds,

Michelle Oravitz:
That’s a natural fake out. I guess that people don’t realize that.

Lorne Brown:
And I love the fact that you said just being heard how that you found to be healing. A local psychologist here does a lot of attachment theory says every human being wants the same thing to be seen and heard, which equals feeling loved. So as soon as you get in and you get to tell your story, like you said, there’s already a healing process happening, listening to you if they’re
Listening. And also as a Chinese medicine practitioner, we want to know what’s going on because everything impacts everything. And so we do want to know what your sleep’s like or your diet’s like or your stress levels. And that’s kind of where I’d love to hear you talk more about your style of practice and how much importance do you put on the mind body. Are you into the spiritual side of Chinese medicine or is it more physical? Can you tell us a little bit about if somebody has come in to see you, what are you interested in and what do you think you bring to the treatment and to the profession? Because everybody kind has their style and I’m curious what you mean by woke up something inside you. What does that mean from the Chinese medicine’s perspective in your experience and how intuition plays into this and how does spirituality for you play in this or the emotional aspect of this?

Michelle Oravitz:
Yeah, it’s a great question. So I think that we all have this innate intelligence within us. And I remember one of my favorite teachers actually in Chinese medicine when I was learning it, he always said first things first. He was doing classic Chinese medicine where he was starting to talk about the organs and everything. He said first things first, and he used to practice Chiang. He goes, you work on your qi. He said, whether you meditate or whatever it is that you do, you have to work on your cheat as a practitioner, otherwise you can’t practice as well as effectively. And I thought that was so interesting because it’s kind of like, okay, so I’m taking the source and I’m helping with that source, connecting to the source and I’m helping others. And so I agree with you on the, I love nerding out on the science aspect of it, and I’m a big huge fan of Dr.
Joe Dispenza’s work. I go to his retreats, I go, I listen to the researchers. The stuff that’s coming out is mind blowing and it’s measurable. So it’s fascinating. I think that right now we’re living in a time where we’re actually finding that a lot of the things that we have learned about for thousands of years are actually being revealed and explained in a different way. And HeartMath pretty much explains to us how the heart and the brain do have a very important relationship. And that coherence is really the connection that you’re making with your patients as well. So for me, that is really important to have that synergistic flow because I don’t know about you, and I’m sure that you probably can relate to this, but unless you have that synergy with the patient that you’re working with, you’re not going to be as effective.
So sometimes it happens where you’re not really speaking the same language and you’re not really able to, or there’s a resistance coming from the person that is coming to you. There’s a resistance, kind of a distrust, and it’s not, it’s not personal, but it’s just a distrust in general, whether they’ve gone through a lot and they’re just in a very distrusting state, questioning everything. So sometimes while that could be just everybody has their own personal journey, it can definitely impact your ability as a practitioner to flow through. So the first thing I do usually is I listen. I just listen to the person. I allow them to just tell me everything from A to Z, and I ask them all kinds of questions. I remember how, well, first of all, it’s data for me, but it’s also really nice for them to just express themselves, even if it’s things outside of the normal TCM questions, just relationships, which I think is all of an impacts, even your job, your job satisfaction, which I think that that impacts your qi.
So that’s one of the first things and really make that connection and understand their language. So one of the things that I studied was NLP and hypnosis. So one of the things that we look at is predicates and how a person speaks their language. Everybody has their own language, even though we’re all speaking English, we have different languages. Some people are more visual, some people are more spiritual. Some people like numbers and data. So depending on where the person’s at, that is where I meet them. So I will speak to them in their language and I feel like that is how I’ll communicate. I’ll be very data focused if it’s a person that really connects with numbers, and I will be very spiritual if it’s a person that connects that way. I am spiritual, so I’m going to kind of say it that way. That means I believe that there’s a higher power of intelligence that we tap into.
I’ve seen it in my life. I’ve had my own proof. So I know that it exists. But I also, one of the questions I ask people is, do they have a spiritual practice? And if they don’t, is there something that you do for self-care? Is there something that brings you joy? Do you still do those things while on this fertility journey? I think that those aspects of our life are very important. So yes, we can treat them, we can do acupuncture, we could do herbs, we could teach them about diet and supplements. However, they’re coming to us once, maybe twice a week. What are they doing outside of that to feed their soul? Those are things that are really important.

Lorne Brown:
Now we got to play some Samis here as you’re talking, I’m liking you more and more, Michelle, I wasn’t aware about your NLP or hypnosis background. I got into from accounting to this. My first dip into the healing world was I did the NLP and the NLP Master and Eric Sony Hypnosis. Then I became Chinese medicine doctor. Then I went and trained as a clinical hypnotherapist

Michelle Oravitz:
As

Lorne Brown:
Well. And I’ve been to three of Joe dispenses week long.

Michelle Oravitz:
Oh, you have? That’s so cool. So we’re like family. To me, that’s family. That takes you to a whole other level of consciousness.

Lorne Brown:
And I often recommend his book. So for our listeners, he has several books. I like Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself is an excellent book. They’re all interesting, but breaking the habit of being yourself I think is a great one. If people feel stuck, they know they’re running these old programs, maybe they’re sabotaging themselves and they just want to get out of themselves, or they want new software for the hardware.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yeah, totally.

Lorne Brown:
That’s a good book to start.

Michelle Oravitz:
So

Lorne Brown:
Great listener, and I love it that you meet them where they’re at and you find that common language so you can speak their language so you can connect with them. So the trust part is difficult for this group that we get to see because they’ve been through so many things, so many procedures, and a lot of them, when they come to you at that point, their hope has become pretty low, I guess because they’ve had a lot of disappointments. Have we talked about three months or a hundred days? Do you have a philosophy or experience? Where do you want them to do some work with you and set expectations that it’s going to take this long and why?

Michelle Oravitz:
Yeah, so I usually do tell them that it takes a couple of cycles really to see a difference and that it’s a journey, that it’s not this kind of one size fits all that’s Chinese medicine doesn’t work like western medicine in that way. Like western medicine, you take a pill, knock out a headache in less than an hour. It doesn’t work that way. We work on nature’s timeline, so we kind of work in that confine of that, and we’re bound by the cycles and we have a monthly cycle, so we’re bound by that time. And we can’t rush that process because that’s the body’s timing. It’s just, I guess concept of time has changed. I think because of really good marketing, I think that we’re taught to look for a quick fix and it’s not really how the body works.

Lorne Brown:
And to be fair, who doesn’t want a quick fix, right? This

Michelle Oravitz:
It’s true.

Lorne Brown:
So there’s no judgment. We want it just, but in reality, and I often think about, because you use the example where natural systems, so there’s a process. It’s kind of like if you have a garden and you plant in the spring and you expect a week later to be able to harvest, you still got to go through the season of summer and then harvest in the fall. And so with fertility, we know there’s that follicular genesis. And on average a hundred days seems to be really important that last a hundred days before an egg retrieval or an ovulation. So we want that environment to be ideal. And then I want to ask you questions that I always get asked. So I’m curious as a colleague, so I want to hear, have you found acupuncture can be supportive of the IVF process, for example?

Michelle Oravitz:
Absolutely. First of all, we know that it brings a lot of blood flow to the pelvis and the uterus. And if you think about it too, it’s like it’s going to assist the medications that are coming in for the retrievals. So the medications want to come to the ovaries and influence them. And while you’re getting the blood flow, and I know that you’re a big fan of soa, I use that as well, which is the low level laser therapy.

Lorne Brown:
Oh, soa. I use that for the face. I have other lasers for the fertility side. I’m a big proponent of low level laser therapy. Absolutely. I don’t use the ulua. I’m familiar with it. We have it,

Michelle Oravitz:
But

Lorne Brown:
We have other laser systems that we use like giga, laser, BioFlex and other systems have more power I guess behind it when we work on the abdomen and the sacrum.

Michelle Oravitz:
So it definitely helps. And it also makes the cells younger, which is of course what you want for your ovaries and the follicles. And so I’ll combine all of that, but it really does help a lot, not just with blood flow, but also your nervous system.

Lorne Brown:
So wait, so you’re using acupuncture and laser. I love that. So again, similarities. So you’re combining photobiomodulation, LLT, low level laser therapy with your acupuncture.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yes.

Lorne Brown:
And you’re using herbal medicine too, I understand.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yes, but not during IVF, which is

Lorne Brown:
Not

Michelle Oravitz:
During the medication. A lot of, yeah, not during the medication because we know that a contraindicate, but I do a lot of supplements. And then of course I have great guests on the podcast that teach me all kinds of things. I had a guy named Dr. Naan Patel, who I don’t know if you’ve heard of him. He actually found, because he’s a pharmacist, he figured out glutathione, how to get it into the system. It’s very hard, as we know, use. So

Lorne Brown:
Our team uses the iv, but have they found a way to get it in orally? That’s the hard part because it can’t

Michelle Oravitz:
Get No, it’s really interesting. He talks about the iv, he talks about the iv, he said it’s great, but it only lasts 24 to 48 hours and then it’s gone. So what he implemented was actually through the skin. And so you take this spray and you spray four a day, like two and two of this glutathione. But what he figured it out to do, because he is a pharmacist and he understands the chemistry aspect of it, was that he took the glutathione and wrapped it. Have you ever seen those pill pockets that you give dogs where you put the medicine inside the pocket, but the dog’s like, Ooh, I like it because it’s a treat. Same thing. So what he does is he wrapped the glutathione with a carbohydrate and the cell basically would take it in. And so he uses everything onsite, does not get third party. He does everything himself, very pure. He’s been doing this, I think he’s been on David Asprey’s podcast too. He’s getting pretty, he has big clients, but he’s been spending almost 10 years on this project. So it’s pretty cool.

Lorne Brown:
Glutathione is a mother, antioxidants, that’s such an important one. So you’ll do supplements and acupuncture and low level laser therapy during IVF. And so when somebody says, how does it help? So you said it brings some blood flow. I think you were mentioning, I missed it. Something about the nervous system.

Michelle Oravitz:
Nervous system too. It also takes the edge off of obviously the symptoms, but then you’re working also on the person overall, whatever their imbalances are to help them. And so when you’re in a state of where your nervous system comes out of fight or flight, which tends to happen a lot when people are going through the IVF, because if you think about it, your body’s almost like an animal. If it’s constantly getting poked and prodded, that’s going to send it into a little bit more of a fight or flight. Plus the hormones are off, so your body’s sensing something’s not right. So it needs that nervous system reset or to come back into a more safe space in order for regeneration, in order for growth, because that’s when we start to create, when we’re more at ease and in a rest and digest mode. I also do a regular, so I will work a lot depending on if it’s a retrieval or a transfer on the ovaries, the endocrine on the ear, and then the uterus, sometimes the liver also to help with the processing of the hormones. So it is really beneficial. Of course, it’s not doing the actual medicine, but it’s very supportive. And then we do of course, the protocols for the before and after transfer. And that has been really successful, really amazing.

Lorne Brown:
Do you guys go onsite or do they just come to your clinic before and after?

Michelle Oravitz:
We do both. So depending on who’s available, if I can do it or one of my acupuncturists can, we’ll go in person. And it also depends on the clinic. Very few times. Usually clinics are fine with it, but very few times they’ll say they don’t want us to be there. So what I typically do is I’ll do the acupuncture, ideally the day of before, and then I’ll let them leave with the ear seeds on the points for their husbands to press.

Lorne Brown:
Nice. We go on site, and so we have a good size team, but it’s a challenge for scheduling. But we make it work. So we’re available seven days a week. We’ve been doing it since 2002. So back in 2002, some clinics would say, we don’t want you now in BC pretty much. They’re very, very open, receptive, and we work together. It’s integrated. So we go on site at the Olive IVF clinic, which is close to my clinic and do the before and after. Patients really like it. They don’t have to travel, so it is just

Michelle Oravitz:
Nice. Yeah, that’s great.

Lorne Brown:
We’re aware of how important this is this day and how much stress they’ve gone through and they find this such a treat so far we’re still able to do that, so we’re happy

Michelle Oravitz:
About. Great, that’s

Lorne Brown:
Great. And then you were talking about the nervous system and you’re talking a little bit about fight or flight and then the parasympathetic rest and digest. How do you respond or what lens of Chinese medicine do you often share about how emotions are impacting the physical body? And I’m curious if you can talk a little bit about the emotions from the lens of Chinese medicine and even from the lens of western medicine.

Michelle Oravitz:
Well, as we know, all our organs have certain types of emotion. They almost have personalities and spirits and certain emotions will impact that. And I think a big thing really is the heart. I like to focus a lot on the heart and of course the spleen because that’s really at the center of everything. But then you have the kidneys, you have pretty much everything matters. It’s like a puzzle

Lorne Brown:
Chinese system. We got to tell our listeners, when you say spleen, you’re not thinking so much western spleen, but

Michelle Oravitz:
Correct

Lorne Brown:
The Chinese medicine spleen system, Chinese medicine kidney system. Because you know why sometimes we

Michelle Oravitz:
It’s true, it’s

Lorne Brown:
True. Say you have spleen sheet, if they go to their doctor, they go, my spleen’s fine.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yeah, yeah. No, this is true. I remember because I remember as a patient going to Dr. Lean, he’d be like, Chinese kidneys weak today, or Chinese spleen. So then I was like, okay, wait, what does that mean? And he goes, not same as western medicine, different. And it’s true. So every organ is not quite exactly the same as what western medicine explains it. Like the kidneys we know in western medicine is okay, processes out, cleanses the blood and creates uterine and goes through the urinary system into the bladder. That is what we know it to be. And of course there’s other things as well, but Chinese medicine, yes, it works on water, but it’s also fire. It has fire and moisture. It’s kind of like the yin and the yang within it. And it’s also where we hold our essence and our reproductive health. So the kidneys are really, really super important for that.
Now, that is a completely different way of looking at the kidneys than what we’re looking at in western medicine. But the heart I find is really important, especially for the fact that it really connects with the uterus and our emotions and our stress. Even though stress could be kind of under the liver because the liver ensures the free flow of energy. And whenever we have that stagnation or that constriction, which is typically what we’ll feel when we’re stressed, that can impact the liver. So there’s many obviously different pieces of the puzzle. However, even the stress can impact the heart. A lot of it comes back to the heart. And the heart plays a really important role. So the thoughts that we have, all of that can impact the heart. Now we know because Chinese medicine’s always been saying this for thousands of years, that the heart houses the mind, and also that the heart has an important role in the uterus. So now we know through things like HeartMath, they actually measure heart, brain coherence. And they find that the more coherent, the connection between the heart and the brain, the better you feel overall. And when you’re in a state where you’re not in fight or flight, you’re not in this overly over yang, you’re more receptive. You’re actually able to create, you’re in a more creative state. The last thing you want to think about when you are surviving is creative. You just don’t want to. Your body reflects that same energy.

Lorne Brown:
So fertility and reproduction is a creative state. And if you’re in that constant fight or flight, then to use words of dispenza really well is you mobilize your resources for survival. So they’re not available as readily for healing, creativity, and reproduction. And when you feel safe and you reduce the stress, then you free up the resources for healing, creativity and reproduction. And it’s interesting, and again, kind of like the subtitle of your book, awakening Your Reproductive Potential Through the Power of Ancient Wisdom is that this has been documented in Chinese medicine for millennia. And now through modern research there, they’re starting to understand that the heart is kind of like a brain

Michelle Oravitz:
And they’re measuring things. It has a larger electromagnetic frequency than our brain way

Lorne Brown:
Larger. And it communicates, and we know now about all the serotonin receptors in the gut. And when we talk to our patients for those that are listening, when we ask them what they’re going through and they discuss their feelings, and if we were doing some clinical hypnosis work and want to know where they feel in their body, very rarely do they say in my head, although some do think it, most of them feel in their chest area, in their stomach area, right?

Michelle Oravitz:
Yes.

Lorne Brown:
So you talked about that channel in Chinese medicine between the heart and the uterus, and then there’s one going between the uterus and the kidney system. So Chinese medicine already has the terrain or physiology to explain how stress and trauma impacts our overall health, which can impact our fertility or our fertility potential at least. So

Michelle Oravitz:
That’s

Lorne Brown:
A beautiful medicine, right?

Michelle Oravitz:
Yeah, it is a beautiful medicine. I love it.

Lorne Brown:
So because of your background training and what you’ve shared so far, I’m curious how you share how or what can impact the mind, what impact can the mind have on our body? Then we talked earlier about we like to head in the clouds feet on the ground, but we live in this body and so our mental emotional that’s happening. I’m curious though if you can share a little bit about how that impacts our body a little bit more.

Michelle Oravitz:
That’s a great question. And I will say this is really fascinating. As we know, and I’m sure you’ve had this on the podcast, your gut health is so key to your fertility health. It’s key to your overall health. It’s very important. And then also your gut microbiome speaks to your brain. Your brain speaks to, so we have a bidirectional connection through the vagus nerve. So the vagus nerve is kind of like the go-between your brain and your enteric nervous system. Your enteric nervous system is basically the nervous system of your whole digestive system from your butt, I mean from your mouth to your butt, sorry. But it’s true the whole area. So basically your vagus nerve, obviously when you do things like humming, you can actually influence your rest and digest mode. You can actually impact that by stimulating the vagus nerve. And one of the things too is a regular therapy can help that. Now, to explain how that impacts, there was a study that was done, this is really fascinating. In Tibet looking at Buddhist monks or it was monks basically that meditated all day. And then they took neighboring, they looked at neighbors, people that lived around there eating the same food, drinking the same water, doing the same things other than meditating all day. And they looked at their microbiome. They basically studied the microbiome of both and the microbiome of the Zen Buddhists, I think it was Zen Buddhists or Buddhists, forgive me if I don’t have that exact

Lorne Brown:
Meditators though.

Michelle Oravitz:
Meditators, let’s just say. So they actually looked at their microbiome versus their neighbors and their microbiome was way more enriched and had variety. And it basically reflected a very low inflammatory state in the body, what was linked with that. So it’s really fascinating to see that. And then there was other studies that showed that certain dysbiosis reflected in mental imbalances such as bipolar disorders and then depression, anxiety. So it’s really fascinating, but this is actually a real thing.

Lorne Brown:
So if I can unpack that your thoughts or your mental emotional state can impact your gut microbiome, and that’s

Michelle Oravitz:
According to these studies, that’s the assumption.

Lorne Brown:
And there’s been other research on this as well. And the gut microbiome is so important because if it’s out of whack, it can affect hormonal health, immune health, it creates inflammation, which I know you talk a lot about on your podcast. And inflammation can go to the brain and then make it worse. It is just because if you’re constantly releasing those stress hormones, cortisol and the adrenaline, they start to negatively impact the gut microbiome and then it becomes a vicious cycle. So depression, anxiety can come from a poor microbiome, but it could have originated from your stressful state, chronic stressful state. So that’s why I guess the mind just looking at that then how important your mental state is as these meditate because they had the same land because where you live can affect your microbiome, what you eat. And you’re saying that was consistent with the two groups. What was it consistent? Was there mental state? One was having a form of mindful practice meditation, assuming which we’ve seen in other research, but assuming then they had a more parasympathetic calm state, alpha brainwave state more often.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yes.

Lorne Brown:
So they had a different microbiome. And do you find in your practice For me, I’m 25 years into practice as we’re recording, I used to be very physically focused and I still address the body. I find in the hierarchy the most important thing to shift is the mental emotional.

Michelle Oravitz:
100%. I’m with you on that.

Lorne Brown:
Yeah, I think if that gets shifted, then there’s so much change that will happen downstream physically, and your behaviors change because the mental emotionals change. So your behaviors are always going to be congruent over time with your thoughts and your programs and beliefs. And that’s why I do the conscious fertility in my practice. And the is 25 years in, I do the needles. I do herbal and supplements diet. So we dress the physical because the physical supports the mental emotional and as you it’s, but my passion is around the conscious work and the change in the subconscious and the work of awakening used the words like Lisa Miller, the Awaken state.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yes, 100%. And I do actually want to mention something. You know how Joe Depen always talks about being in high beta where you’re really into the material world and the details in the numbers and that you really are very focused on that and identified with that versus when you get into the quantum and you kind of go into this delta, I mean, that’s the highest where you’re really out there and you’re really relinquishing yourself or making a space between the identifications of who you are in reality to the possibilities of what could happen. And that’s part of a lot of, you look at all the meditation practices, they go into this nothingness, they release, they let go of that ego, that identification identified state. And when people do want to mention this, when they go to the doctor’s office, a lot of what is talked about and focused on are the high beta, the numbers, the details, all of those things versus that bird’s eye view. So sometimes I see people being really emotionally and spiritually distraught after coming from that.

Lorne Brown:
Yeah. And I got to share, you said high beta. You’re talking high beta brainwaves. Everybody, not high beta that you want. We want a high beta pregnancy. This is true. This is true. Very good. I know your language, but I was thinking, I bet the people listening, they’re going to go, what’s wrong with the high beta? Yeah,

Speaker 3:
Yeah,

Lorne Brown:
This is true. So high beta brainwaves, like overly high be beta language is more overwhelmed. So when you are feeling overwhelmed, that’s high beta, can’t focus normal beta, nice beta. You can focus, get work done. Alpha is the detach relaxation. And then you go into theta, which is super meditative state, delta sleep. And then gamma is like this altered state where you’re tapping into the quantum.

Michelle Oravitz:
Right? So there was gamma. Yeah,

Lorne Brown:
Gamma, yeah. And some of my systems I have, I can program the frequency. So I have some people come in that we do stuff around the head in high gamma and I have, oh,

Michelle Oravitz:
That’s so cool. What is that?

Lorne Brown:
It’s the BioFlex system. So
I have two systems. I have the V light system, which I use personally, and it’s been used in research for some Alzheimer’s disease and other traumatic brain injuries. And then the BioFlex laser system professional, you can change, you can adjust the power. It has a max, but you can bring it down, but you can play with the frequency. So I sometimes play with the frequency. I’ve talked to a couple neuroscientists that have worked with certain brain disease like Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s, see what they’re seeing clinically and in research. And then just to let you know things that you, well, two other things that I’ve been playing with in my practice. One is we have a sound table, and I’ve been looking for a long time for a sound table that was priced that I can play also with the herz, the frequency. And they have meditations for different chakras or release. They play with the vibration, but there is some research based on different frequencies, different immune response. Patients love it. And then I have the podcast episode is on the neuro visor. It’s the founder of it, and it’s a wellness device, but the intention is it can help with neuroplasticity time and time again. It’s only a five minute session with these special lights flashing and binary beats coming into the ears. It’s like a reset.

Michelle Oravitz:
That’s so cool. That’s so cool. And by the way, so I do play sulf GIO frequencies in the background of my office because of course it’s like a frequency and then I do a sound bowl. So I love this kind of stuff.

Lorne Brown:
I heard it once and that’s why I like it is the future of medicine is vibrational medicine. It’s

Michelle Oravitz:
Going to be

Lorne Brown:
Done by sound and light. And so sound is music, light color,

Michelle Oravitz:
Albert Einstein. I think that

Lorne Brown:
That’s incredible. Maybe it was him. And so this is what I’m seeing. So let’s talk about what we’re using photons in our practice, right? Form of light energy in our practice, low level laser therapy. And then you’re using sound vibration frequencies again, right? By the way, nothing I just want to share with the listeners. Nothing replaces movement, community, sleep, eating. Well, that is the pillar you have to do. And then you add, there’s acupuncture, herb supplements, our sound tables, those toys.

Michelle Oravitz:
Yes. Yeah, for sure.

Lorne Brown:
Patients come to me. So I’m asking you this question on behalf of them. I want to know what’s going on. I want to leave no stone unturned. I want that underlying cause. What do you think is some of the missed things on a checklist when people are trying to conceive that you want to share with them that, Hey, have you looked at this yet?

Michelle Oravitz:
So sometimes it is things like gut health. If you want to look at more physical things, they’ll say, oh, I was diagnosed with unexplained infertility. They don’t know what’s going on, but yet they’re constipated and they don’t go to the bathroom for a couple of days in a row. So things like that. Or they have

Lorne Brown:
Really, but let’s emphasize that because they’ve been diagnosed with unexplained infertility,

Michelle Oravitz:
Correct?

Lorne Brown:
From

Michelle Oravitz:
The western medicine, which is based on the labs that they do typically, which is they do blood work, they look at the physical anatomic, anything’s blocking all of those things, and they find nothing. So then they say it’s unexplained. But then functional medicine doctors or us, we kind of look a little bit between the lines and a little bit beneath the surface and you can start to see that there’s more going on. They wake up at night, they don’t sleep well. There’s other stressors. Most of the things, the most common one is stress. Sounds really simplistic, but like emotional

Lorne Brown:
Stress. Yeah. Well, I’m going to ask you this way then

Michelle Oravitz:
From

Lorne Brown:
Your lens of Chinese medicine, or if a patient came to you and said, I’ve been diagnosed with unexplained in fertility. So they said, my sex hormones are good. FSH, estradiol, a MH for my age, I’m ovulating. My tubes are open, my uterus looks normal. If I’m with a partner, he has normal sperm. I say in quotes, normal sperm, and they say, I’m unexplained. And then they go on to tell you that they have constipation, they have terrible pain in their back. They get headaches once in a while. They have some skin rashes. They feel freezing cold. And they have PMS and real bad pain with their periods and big clots. Would you say they have unexplained infertility?

Michelle Oravitz:
No, exactly. Yeah.

Lorne Brown:
So unexplained infertility, just or I’ll ask you this. If somebody’s labs are normal, but they have all those symptoms, is that what you consider a healthy body then that would be a fertile body?

Michelle Oravitz:
No, it’s a body that’s definitely screaming. Listen, I see the symptoms are actually your friends. And this is one of the things that I think people are, oh my God, I hate having this. No, no, no. It’s actually, it’s your ally. It’s telling you what you need to hear. It’s making you pay attention. So when you have those symptoms, it’s your body telling you something’s out of whack. And sometimes it’s honestly as simple as removing gluten. People will shift. It changed my life. A lot of people tend to be sensitive to it, and I don’t know if it’s the sprays or whatever. So sometimes it’s like little fixes, small things that can really make a big difference.

Lorne Brown:
So on the checklist then, if somebody was coming in, one of them is just looking at all these symptoms that are often overlooked, like your gut health, your bowel movements. Anything else on a checklist that comes to mind?

Michelle Oravitz:
Yeah, 100% relationships. Yeah, because a big one, I mean that’s a huge one. People can get symptoms from bad relationships and bad jobs and the stress level of work. And are they able to buffer? Or at least sometimes, obviously we can’t quit our jobs many times. So are there things that you’re doing to counterbalance that weight? Are you coming home and doing something you like to do? Those are things that seem very simplistic, but they’re huge,

Lorne Brown:
I guess when you say simplistic, but huge. So small events or small actions,

Michelle Oravitz:
Walking, taking a walk after work, meditating, grounding, putting your feet on the earth. We know scientifically that lowers inflammation, those things. And it helps with sleep. Getting sunlight in the morning, the typical, just connecting with nature.

Lorne Brown:
Those are good tips. I love those tips. So anything you want to add that I might’ve missed? Just kind of on this holistic journey that you’re doing to let people know what’s available. And then also I want to let them know where they can find your website, your Instagram, a little bit about your coaching as well, and your podcast. I want people to know so they can connect with you more from you as well, because you got a wealth of information and really, really holistic approach. Integrated approach, it

Michelle Oravitz:
Sounds. Well, thank you so much, Lorne. I really enjoyed our conversation. So the one thing that I would say is your body’s really intelligent. Get into a habit of connecting with it. It’s going to tell you what’s going on. Start paying attention. The more you pay attention and actually can guide you. And I’ve seen many of my patients feel off with one doctor, choose to go to another doctor, feel connected and have a much better result. That intuition matters. You got to listen to your body, listen to yourself, because your body does speak through your emotions are really, like we said in our bodies. And then also when we’re talking about frequencies, you can do things. Yes, I’m going to be very excited to talk to you about the different devices, but you can start humming. This is what the ancients did before all of this. They used to hum, they used to chant, they used to own. Those are some of the things that you can do just to get your body more attuned and get yourself also into a parasympathetic state of nervous system. So I would say focusing on that, getting yourself in a rest and digest mode and a more safe feeling mode is incredibly important when it comes to your fertility.

Lorne Brown:
Alright, and Michelle, where do we find you? Because you have a coaching program that’s available and I want to know the podcast and your website. Can you just share that and we’ll put it in the show notes as well?

Michelle Oravitz:
Of course. So michelle orbitz.com. Through there you can find my clinic. There’s a link to my clinic. You’ll find my podcast, you’ll find all of my programs, how to find me, and then you’ll find my Instagram, which I’m pretty active people DMing me there. I’m always happy to get dms. It’s at the wholesome Lotus Fertility,

Lorne Brown:
Perfect wholesome Lotus Fertility. Also, you can go there to the website and that’s where I started learning about your podcast and your blogs and other things as well. It was all there. So that was really helpful.

Michelle Oravitz:
Alright,

Lorne Brown:
Well Michelle, we’ll see each other, I’m sure in our A BRM group. We’ll connect there.

Michelle Oravitz:
Well, thank you so much, Laura, this is amazing.

Lorne Brown:
Hey, thank you Michelle. It was a pleasure chatting with you today. Alright, I just want to share a few resources for you that Michelle and I kind of slightly mentioned or detailed mentioned just so you can follow up with that. Again, do check out her website. She’s got a great podcast and blogs on her site. We talked about the nervous system, parasympathetic, sympathetic. I want to direct you to episode 45 with Steven Porges, where he talks about the polyvagal theory and brain body connection. He’s done a lot of research on this. Also, she talked about humming in the vagus nerve. So Jonathan and Andy Goldman have been on there and they actually take you through a humming exercise to activate your vagus nerve. And that podcast is called The Transformative Power of Sound. And that’s again, episode 51, Steven Porges Was episode 45 more of your the belief and how your beliefs affect your Body, the Science of Belief by Bruce Lipton’s, episode 54, Lisa Miller, we mentioned.
The awakened brain is Lisa Miller, episode 68. And then also Randine Lewis. We talked about flow and receptivity. She was one of our earlier episodes, but we did a rerelease of it as episode 90. So check out episode 90 with Randine Lewis. And then if you go to the Acubalance.ca website, there is some blogs on the nerve visor and then the sound table I mentioned. And if you go to how we Treat or what we treat, I think it’s under Nervous System reset or under Nerve Visor and Sound Table. If you want to learn more about that. And again, that’s on acubalance.ca. And please do check out Michelle’s website because she’s got great resources for you

Speaker 3:
If you’re looking for support to grow your family. Contact Acubalance Wellness Center at Acubalance. They help you reach your peak fertility potential through their integrative approach using low level laser therapy, fertility, acupuncture, and naturopathic medicine. Download the Acubalance Fertility Diet and Dr. Brown’s video for mastering manifestation and clearing subconscious blocks. Go to acubalance.ca. That’s a Acubalance.ca.

Lorne Brown:
Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Conscious Fertility, the show that helps you receive life on purpose. Please take a moment to subscribe to the show and join the community of women and men on their path to peak fertility and choosing to live consciously on purpose. I would love to continue this conversation with you, so please direct message me on Instagram at Lorne Brown official. That’s Instagram, Lorne Brown official, or you can visit my websites Lorne brown.com and acubalance.ca. Until the next episode, stay curious and for a few moments, bring your awareness to your heart center and breathe.