Lorne Brown 

By listening to the Conscious Fertility Podcast, you agree to not use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or others. Consult your own physician or healthcare provider for any medical issues that you may be having. This entire disclaimer also applies to any guest or contributors to the podcast. Welcome to Conscious Fertility, the show that listens to all of your fertility questions so that you can move from fear and suffering to peace of mind and joy. My name is Lorne Brown. I’m a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine and a clinical hypnotherapist. I’m on a mission to explore all the paths to peak fertility and joyful living. It’s time to learn how to be and receive so that you can create life on purpose.

Welcome to the Conscious Fertility Podcast. Today my guest is Dr. Japp Van Der Wal, who’s a medical doctor, PhD and embryologist. Now to my listeners, as you know, we have kind of two themes often happening in our podcast. One could be very fertility focused and then the others. The majority are on consciousness. This one is both. So if you’re looking to grow your family, I think this will be an interesting podcast. And if you’re interested in consciousness and not looking to grow your family, I think you’re going to stick around and hear what Dr. Japp Van Der Wal has to say. As I mentioned, he’s a medical doctor and embryologist who has focused his research on the fields of anatomy and embryology. He’s particularly known for his work in understanding the human embryo from a logical perspective, Dr. Van Der Wal explores the connection between the human body and consciousness, often integrating insights from anthroposophy.

He emphasizes the concept of the embryo as a dynamic spiritual entity rather than just a physical body, which he sheds light on how embryonic development relates to human consciousness and individuality. Now he has a full bio that I encourage you to go to his website. It’s going to be in the show notes, but that website is embryo nl. It’s available in English and in German. I think you have a few languages there. And he also offers courses, online courses. And so if you want to find more about embryology, the articles and books he offers, the chapters and books, videos, movies, and his course. The embryo in us humans is an embryo, understanding ourselves as embryo and how that relates to our consciousness. And psychosomatic beams. He has a four day online course, so check out his website for that as well. Dr. Van Der Wal, thank you for joining me on the Conscious Fertility Podcast. Now, I wanted to chat with you because although you’ve been trained in embryology and you’re now retired, you also seem to be like a philosopher. And I’m kind of just curious, how did you become you? Like you’re a medical doctor, embryologist, and I don’t know when I hear interviews from you, you seem to have a bit of a philosopher taste to you. What put you on your spiritual path and did it come from studying the embryo?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Well, I started of course as a medical student because I wanted to become a medical doctor. But during my training I met anatomy in particular and embryology because it was in the Department of Anatomy and Embryology. And there I became fascinated by science, by the human body. And I more or less decided then, well, maybe I’m not going to be a practitioner, but is that my future being a scientist? But then I became pregnant and all people are always surprised when they say that I think that I’m correct when they say that I became pregnant with my wife. I became pregnant with a child and it was on intent. So in those days we had to marry and we married of course to reassure my father that everything would be well. But then I had my first embryo practice and in that practice we had to study microscopical slices of the human embryo, but also we had to open a chicken egg and in the chicken egg, a living embryo.

And it was so fascinating, fascinating for me because at that time I was just involved in embryos because I was pregnant with my girlfriend, but my wife now. And then I wrote her a letter and I said, this is so fascinating. Maybe this is what I want to know about in the future, but what it has to do with the child in your belly that very soon is going to make me a father. I don’t know. There was a split between what I learned as a scientist about MBO and what I experienced in my life as being practiced, having children, raising children, and being a father. How is this relationship? And that was a question. And then I met Anthrop and Anthrop made me aware of that. You can make the choice. Either we are just buddies and we have brains and brains that produce our personality or we are beings of spirit that matter.

We are beings with a soul. And then I started to realize, but if we have a soul, what will I answer to the question that so many people have nowadays ask me nowadays? And that is when does the soul come in? It’s a typical Catholic question because Catholics believe that we are beings of soul and body. And then yes, but when at what moment is the soul coming in? And that became a very logical question for you, but science doesn’t give an answer to that. And then I realized I had to try to bridge between what science is telling about embryos and what I experienced in B as soul or consciousness. 

So I became fascinated by the question, if we are beings of consciousness and body of soul and body, when is soul coming in? And then I realized that the answer is it is not a given moment in the third or week or the third month that
we are either a being of body or we are a being of body and spirit that is a very simple, let’s say dichotomy. You have to choose either everything in my body is physical, is body, or there’s something else in me. But when there’s something else in me, I assume it must be there from the very beginning on and not something that comes in later or in the third week or the third month. But what it has to do with consciousness, maybe an embryo is also a conscious being. But we have to realize that consciousness is a very weak modern expression nowadays for the mind, soul spirit consciousness is only a function of the mind of the spirit. It could be very simply true that an embryo also has a mind. But what is the mind doing in an embryo? Because an embryo I think cannot think yet or cannot feel or touch something.

And then I met Blechschmidt, Blechschmidt, that’s a German name and that is one of the most important human embryologists in the last century. And he had an idea about it. He said, so might not be something that comes in later. Soul is there in the embryo from the very beginning on. But the first thing soul, if it is in you has to do is performing, shaping your body. And then he used an expression that fascinated me and up to now is my lead. My slogan soul is pre-excised in the body. Soul is not something that comes in later, but already the shaping of your body is behavior. The way you shape your body is a kind of exercise. What you later can do with that body physiologically and what you later can perform with that body psychologically, I give you an example going off right is a typical human feature.

Everybody knows, but many people mix it up with fidelity. We are more than bipedal beings. We are beings that can balance. We are the only beings that incorporate gravity in us so that we can balance around a century in ourselves. And going abroad is a very important gesture for a human being. And you all know the moment that a child for the first time gets upright, standing on two feet, no longer grabs the legs of his mother, and then you can see in the child that it experiences something. It’s a kind of joy that being on your own, being on your cell, being autonomous. And then Blechschmidt said, well, that’s not the first time you pre-exercise that in your body when you were an embryo. And that’s exactly what a human embryo is doing. There comes a moment when the embryo is very flexed in itself like an animal, but then the human being starts to deflect its head, starts to deflect its pelvis and it comes upright.

It comes in an upright position. And it’s a very good example because what is going upright? Going upright is of course a gesture of the body. We go upright, but it’s also a gesture of soul, of consciousness, being able to stand upright, to stand on your own, to be autonomous. That’s a gesture of the soul. And so what blessed with means is that when a child comes upright, when it’s one years old for the first time, that’s not the first time that is pre-exercise in morphology forming and shaping the body, you first have to erect your body in a morphological way so that you later can do it in a physiological way. And that also is a pre-exercise because one year later that little child says, for the first time, I want a piece of bread. And until that moment they always talked about themselves in the third person, Jappy wants a piece of bread.

But that first experience in yourself, I want something. I don’t want to be a priest’s father, I want to study medicine. That is the kind of coming upright that is spiritual. It’s a force of spirit to come upright. But first you have to perform morphologically, then you perform physiologically and that all is free exercise to be able to come up right in your later life cycles. And those were the questions that I’m going to ask myself. So consciousness, don’t call it consciousness. Consciousness is my awareness of being awake. The embryo sleeps, but that doesn’t mean that there is no soul. That doesn’t mean that there is no consciousness, but the consciousness is there involved in shaping, performing the body. So consciousness is, or soul is there from the very beginning on and consciousness is another thing. I maybe later talk about that or I don’t know if we will talk about it, but soul spirit is there from the beginning on, so what does that mean?

That is the question that the child is asking, where do I come from? The answer to that must be found in conception and that became my main topic in my teaching about embryo. What is conception? What happens if conception? If we are beings of spirit and body of spirit and matter, then conception might be the moment in which for the first time there is a connection between that ritual that lets say non body dimension in me and matter. So conception therefore might be the biology not of making, not of fertilization, but maybe conception is a process in which something can connect. So actually we nowadays perceive or think that conception is the making of that. The sperm fertilizes an egg. I have never seen that. I’ve never seen an active principle like a sperm penetrating a poor passive act and therefore fertilizing the act. The act is not fertilized.

It is an hour long process of interaction dancing with each other. Are we going to do this and yes or no and exchange your substances and then you see that there is a situation for a very few hours in which something else might connect. That is all I bring to people. That conception isn’t not the penetration of a sperm penetrating an act, it’s a dancing. It’s creating possibilities. A child is made possible. And what is the partner in that? Human conception is not about two, human conception is about three. There’s a third like the Taos as said, there’s always the three and the third is the spiritual dimension that is apparently in the conception process. It’s made possible that spiritual dimension can connect with the matter of a sperm and an egg. And then the sperm and the egg transform not in a cell. The zygote is not a fertilized egg cell. As soon as the so-called egg cell is fertilized as soon as they fuse that comes as goat and as the goat, it’s something else. A zygote is not a cell

Lorne Brown 

Let’s unpack that a bit because obviously from the materialistic perspective you have an egg cell and a sperm cell and practicing Chinese medicine and knowing about the dao, you got the one then comes to two, then comes to three, then comes to 10,000 things.

So it’s an understanding that there’s the sperm, the egg, and then spirit enters to create life. In the materialistic perspective, you have an egg, you have a sperm in an IVF, they can do ICSI. Inseminate the egg and then there is the zygote. The question I would like you to unpack here, I’m giving you the materialistic perspective here, right?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah. Because the verb inseminate is an active principle as if the sperm fertilizes the egg. No fertilization is the act of fusion and you know how much violence we need to force an egg to fuse with the sperm, you can see that in the artificial fertilization they take a needle and with a lot of violence they force the sperm cell to be entered into the egg. That cannot happen in vivo. That’s impossible. A sperm never can evolve or develop the force, the mechanical force to penetrate an egg. And that is what I do not see in vitro virtualization. I see a life, an hour long process of exchange that we also rotate around each other and in these few hours there’s an exchange of substance and then it’s made possible that they fuse. So the fusion leads to a new, it’s a kind of transition. It’s the same transitional moment as dying. When children are present at the death bed of my father, what is the first thing they say? Where is granddaddy now? Because what do children see at a deathbed that something disappears? What do I see at a conception that something comes in and not that the sperm forcefully penetrates or fertilizes the egg, that the fertilization is the process of exchange of dancing and then at the end fusion and then when the fusion is successful, then you get a zygote, a human body.

Lorne Brown 

That’s the key part I want you to emphasize here is you had an egg cell and a sperm cell, but the zygote, you talk about it from a different perspective as if it’s not a bunch of cells multiplying. You see something different when you study embryology

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah.

Lorne Brown 

And I just want to add, I just have a metaphor or an idea that comes through me if you’re looking at it, the reality is there and it’s kind of what lens we’re wearing is how we perceive and what we’re seeing. And those images where you look at it and it’s a young woman or it’s an old woman, so the image is there and depends on how you’re looking. You’ll either see the old woman or a young woman. And so a materialist will look here and say it’s a zygote, it’s a bunch of cells and you’re looking at it from a different perspective. And so I’m curious to hear how you are seeing it.

Another example is it looks like the sun is rotating around the earth, but we now know that the earth is rotating around the sun, but it looks like that. So I’m sharing with the audience that although it looks like egg and sperm and these are a bunch of cells, there is another way to look at this and this is why I wanted Japp to talk to us. So how are you seeing the zygote? How are you seeing this as a transformation of an egg and cell and not an egg plus, sorry, rather than its egg plus sperm. You’re seeing a whole new transformation.

Japp Van Der Wal 

I see a transition and I see that the two cells perform something that’s on a higher level, they become a unicellular organism. So it’s not simply diffusion of two cells then delivering a third cell. No, it’s not a cell. It is a human body. And then that human body starts to grow. And what is growing? Growing is always associated with multiplication. Multiplication more of the same, more of multiplication of replication. But that’s not what happens. What happens is that that huge zygote is super-organized by the multiplication of the cells in it. We see that the body is grown, and is super organized. So growing is not simply having more of the same. We are not a product of cells, no. We organize our body constantly into cells, into trillions of cells and that makes it possible to differentiate, shade these cells and to create a body.

So for me, the body is not a product of the cells that come out of the conception. No, the body itself is the result of conception and then that body is organized by that multiplication process of cells. So that is to say the image that something comes in, something is incarnating into that body and organizes that body by means of a cell. That’s what we call what I call the physical body. That’s the physical body. Ru Steiner said cancer for example is a disease of the physical body because what is the difference between the growing in physics and the growing in living nature? The growth in physics is simply the particle, another particle, another particle, another molecule more and more and more of the same. But the growth in a living being is the organization of that multiplication. And when you are not capable of that, then you get cancer.

Cancer is when the force of the cells multiplication, replication more and more of the same is no longer under control of the organism. And that is growth. Growth autopoiesis is shaping yourself that every living organism is not the product of itself. Every living organism is making itself by means of those forces of multiplication and organizing itself into a living organism. So the primary is the whole not the product of the parts In physics, yes, the physicians, they work with the particles, with the quarks and the neutrals, the electrons. But in living nature it’s no longer about the particle. There is no Japp from the wall molecule. There is no rose element, no a rose and Japp from the wall are living beings and they organize the particles in let’s say the whole is organizing itself into cells. So that’s the reverse. And that means how you think about conception. You think about conception as the making of a cell and the cells start to multiply and produce a body. Okay, that’s what you can see. But I see something else I see at conception, something coming in and the question, what is very simple, you have to wait the whole life to know what is incarnating there because it’s that what disappears or separates from it when you die.

Lorne Brown 

So you’re not going to be able to give us a complete answer there. We have to die to know that again. But you are suggesting then that you have matter, you have the egg and sperm cell and then spirit comes in soul consciousness, however people want to describe it and it’s this energy, the spirit is what is organizing the cells to create the embryo. And then the human body so

Japp Van Der Wal 

Zygote is, so to say, the consequence of that incarnation act. The zygote is not my cause. That’s what many people think I’m caused by. I am made by my father and my mother. And that’s why I think that we possess our children. Let’s please forget about it. You cannot make your children and you do not possess them. And that’s a very important social law for me. The future should be that no one should ever possess someone else and that we nowadays start more and more to think that we have the right to the child, that we can make a child, that we can shape the child according to our wishes or according to what we think it should become. Now we have to wait for what comes out of it. Because in that fertilized exhale, in that zygote already there’s present what is going to emerge and manifest itself in all the later life cycles. And the later life cycles are not a product of the body consciousness. Soul is not a product of the body. It uses the body as a condition to perform, to shape, to process itself. That’s why I said the emperor in you is not a past.

Lorne Brown 

Say that again. The embryo in you is not the past.

Japp Van Der Wal 

No, it’s not the past. It’s not a long time ago that you were an embryo and then you became a fetus and then you became a newborn and then you became a child. No, all the faces have the same value. I mean an embryo is not yet being, the embryo is the physical way, the morph logical way of being human. And that with that, you never stop. Every morning you wake up with a new body. Even last night you made 10 million new synapses in your brain. You created 1 trillion new liver cells. Your body is constantly in a process. Your body is not a static structure, it’s not a machine. A machine is built up from the elements. You can build a computer from its chip, but in a living being the body is constantly performed and shaped and refreshed. And that’s why the body is not anatomy. It’s a process. It’s a process in time. And that’s what I call, yeah, that is sold, that is spirit. That’s your dimension in me.

Lorne Brown 

And I think I’ve heard you say that you don’t think we’re a result of cell division. You kind of alluded to that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. So you’re not seeing us as a machine. So if we’re not a result of cell division, if I’m understanding this organizing energy, we’ll call it the soul comes in and it organizes the body and then it’s a continuous happening throughout the embryo development. And so if we can just go with this, you have these zygotes, so you had two cells come together plus spirit and then it starts to organize. I think I’ve heard you say something and please say something about we die out of our mother at birth. Can you tell me what you mean about that? And I think you connect that to the placenta because some people aren’t aware that you have the zygote, but eventually there’s going to be some more changes and there’s going to be almost a division. Part of it’s going to become the placenta and part of it’s going to become the body.

Japp Van Der Wal 

The body just starts sitting in the chair. Yeah.

Lorne Brown 

So can you talk a little bit about, I think you say we die twice, at least when we’re born and then when the body dies. Do you have anything to share on that? What do you mean?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Dying is the gesture, the process of let’s say separation. Something separates from a former, so you die out of a former Rumi, says Rumi the philosopher, I died from the mineral and became a plant more of a stone. Never becomes a living being, a living being is something else than a stone. So we have to die out of the physical mineral world in order to develop and become living beings. And more of the plant, more of living will never get consciousness. The animal is the opposite of the plant. The animal dies out of the plant. Dying is the gesture of development. That is why Darwin in principle cannot be right. The later species do not come from the former, but we do not come from the apes. The ape is in us and we developed, so to say, from the apes out of the apes we developed and became human and the Abe developed out of the Prius and the primer developed out of the mammals.

So gesture is a necessity to develop and now realize that only living nature, all living nature has the essential future of mortality. Mortality is a necessity to develop. Physics is eternity. Water doesn’t have a lifetime, but living beings have a lifetime. They have to die. Dying is the possibility of development. And that’s what literally is happening in your prenatal time. Because already at the end of the first week you create two bodies, you create a center and that is okay, that’s called embryo blast. And that will so to say become the body that’s not sitting in a chair. At the same time you develop a mental around that center and that is your future placenta. And there you see a deep polarity. You see that from that moment on that center is more and more becoming autonomous and has at the end to be separated from mother where your placenta body is more and more connecting sympathetic with the mother. And that’s how you live. So as you ask me, where does an embryo live or where do you live? Prenatally not in your body yet you live in your placenta. Your placenta is a magnificent organ. It can breathe, it can digest, it can excrete. It’s a very complex organ where you live there, you breathe, there you exist. And what are you doing shaping your body? And now what happens at birth

Lorne Brown 

Say shaping your body, you mean it’s growing the

Japp Van Der Wal 

Body that’s now sitting in the chair?

Lorne Brown 

Yeah. So you’re shaping the body’s growth and that placenta is nourishing you. It’s feeding you.

Japp Van Der Wal

No placenta is not nourishing you. The placenta is part of your body. I mean all embryology books talk about the proper embryo and the placenta and consider the membranes as added as secondary. I have never seen that. You never see a moment in the embryonic development that the placenta or the membranes or the amal is added. No, you see that the body falls apart in a centering body now sitting in the chair and the periphery body that enables you to root and to connect and to live. So what has to happen? You see that the two bodies are more and more separate. So I refuse the word proper embryo because there is not a proper embryo, an actual embryo with some apnea or secondary organs. No, the whole is the embryo. You also live and perform and shape in your placenta, but at birth they have to die. You have to die with your center out of your periphery and that is birth. Birth is dying out of yourself and you have to die otherwise you cannot develop further. What you did nine months long was envelope yourself rudely, connect, enable yourself. But when you have to go on, you have to die out of the form to come in the next stage

Lorne Brown

Because the language dying sounds like the end. But it sounds like dying is an evolution where there’s another,

Japp Van Der Wal 

Dying is a verb, dying is a verb, it’s an activity, it’s a performance you have to die out of. So it’s a necessity to, you can see it in this way nine months long, you loped yourself with your placenta in order to be able to root and to live in the world we were waking up in. But then you have to lop develop means that you have to leave your envelope and develop against it. And that’s why you do not come from your mother. I’ve never seen a child coming from the belly of its mother. A child comes from its placenta, it has to die out of its placenta and mother assists in that. And that’s quite not a view about birth. And now I come to the essences, the essentialist. This is a gesture that is already pre-exercise when you’re four weeks old, when you’re four weeks old, you create yourself an amniotic sac around you and you nearly are born.

But then you keep up your umbilical court so that you are not completely disconnected. And when you are born physiologically, then you disconnect from your placenta and there’s a corpse at birth, there’s a corpse. It’s the same process. At the deathbed of my father, my father left his body. So he separated from his body and the body became a corpse. And now it comes. I think that your whole life, you have to repeat this gesture. It’s also a pre-exercise of a very important developmental gesture that many times in your life you have to perform that gesture already. One year later when you go to Kindergarten for the first time, your mother is crying because you have to leave her otherwise you cannot stay in the cold, the golden griddle where everybody’s taking care of you. You have to leave and you have to become autonomous. And there comes a moment where you’re 20 years old, 21 years old and you stand up against your father and you say, I don’t want to become a priest. I will become a medical doctor. That’s also development. That is why Darwin in principle is not right. We come not from the animals we developed through the evolution of animals.

Lorne Brown 

So I think I only have one issue with this philosophy now is that my 21-year-old that says he’s going to become a doctor, you said he has to give birth. So he comes out of the placenta. In this case it sounds like he leaves your home. But what happens if your child doesn’t leave your home and he’s living in your basement? He’s not fully bored

Japp Van Der Wal

But philosophically is very important. 

Lorne Brown

I have some questions about this. I love philosophy and then I also love to see how we can incorporate this in our life. And I want to do it on a big picture and then on an individual one, I was just thinking how you talked about cancer cells when the organizing seems to have gone wrong. And I have a question: if it’s soul and spirit can go wrong, what happens when we see things where the body’s not developing properly or we have miscarriages? What’s your thought, your thinking and philosophy around that? We have the egg cell and the sperm cell. We bring in this energy genes

And so what’s your physical, the matter still plays a part. If the matter has errors in it, even with that energy coming in, we can have a miscarriage or have issues. I also know that the embryo can self-correct? So we can see things as an embryo and then it does correct itself. So if somebody was asking you like how come I’m not getting pregnant? Or how come I miscarried or somebody has a genetic issue, what is the philosophy in your study of the embryo? How would you answer that? Or do you have the answer to that? Those are big questions.

Japp Van Der Wal

Well maybe we should use the word healing. Healing is an opportunity. Disease may find its cause in the genes in the body in physical matter, something goes wrong and you are not able to perform the body according to what you have in your mind. The plan, the body plan that every human, human being is capable of. So the body has resistance and in the resistance there might be failures and mistakes and it might be a cause of miscarriages for example. But another very important cause of miscarriage is that mother and child do not match. Don’t forget that a child has to grow into the body of its mother never again. You’ll be so intimate with you as in your prenatal life because without any limits you are accepted by your mother in her blood, in her living tissues. You know what problem that is? If I would give you my liver, the first thing you will do with my liver is throw it out.

And that also is the possibility that mother has, she can reject the child because the child is recognized by her as a genetic alien. Only half of the genes are from my father. So actually pregnancy is a biological miracle because usually you should expect that the mother would reject the child. Apparently she does not. How does she do that? She does that in the same way we do it with patients that get a strange organ. You get an organ from a donor, what do you have to take a lifelong, you have to take a medicine that suppresses your immunity, your identity, your bio identity. So the mother apparently withdrawals her bio identity. Do you know that nowadays we have discovered that in every woman who has been pregnant, even when the child has been aborted or when the child has died, the cells of the children are still found as stem cells in the body of the mother.

Mother is hosting the embryo, mother is hosting the child and that means that she withdraws her bio identity and creates an asylum, a privileged site that is pregnancy. But it might be wrong and mother cannot, cannot help that. But it might be disorders in her immune system or whatever. And then she’s not fulfilling this capacity of shaping space. That might be a cause of miscarriage. But of course miscarriage can be caused by defects in the body. The child cannot root or cannot perform a body in the right way. So I think the disease most of the time has its cause in the body and soul spirit might be the dimension of the healer. The healer of cancer in US modern cancer therapy is nowadays immunotherapy. We now know that we are heading for a future in which we have to develop for every cancer, every type of cancer in every individual, a very specific medical because cancer is the failure of the bio identity to control that strange cells that have come up, the healer in us is there so he can support that healing.

And if you do it by surgery and by chemo and by all the others that are not therapies that are treatments. But the real treatment, real therapy in the future might be that we activate our own bio identity in order to reorganize these cancer cells if possible. Of course in the right way. So I see disease, I don’t think that spirit, my soul can be diseased. Let’s make a difference between soul and spirit because soul is my personality. That is my soul is a job from the wall, but that’s not my spirit. My spirit might be something beyond that. And people often say, oh you are an anthropos. No, I’m not an anthropologist. I’m inspired by the ideas of Rudolph Steiner. Oh, so that means that you reincarnate sir, you will come back. I said no, I will never come back. That’s impossible. One time, yeah, BOL is enough because there might be something in me, something eternal, something yin, something spiritual that might leave the body when I die and maybe come back in another dimension, in another time, in another culture, in another body.

And never again I will be Japp for the wall. So Japp for the wall I consider my soul. My soul is Japp from the wall is as well body as spirit. But that spiritual dimension, that’s my spirit, that’s my healer, that is my higher self and that is so to say non body. But the soul is as well, body as well spirit. And at the same time, neither body nor spirit, something new. That’s why Japp on the wall is so unique. There will never be a Japp on the wall again. You cannot clone me. You can reincarnate me. That’s why it’s so unique.

Lorne Brown 

And why don’t you touch on when you were sharing about that sometimes there’s miscarriage, there’s not a right fit. And just to give comfort to our listeners, many times the women will share with me that they feel that their body’s failing them, they’re failing their child. God is punishing me based on their beliefs.

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Terrible.

Lorne Brown 

So I want to be sensitive to that because is there anything anybody can do or because I don’t want to give somebody another reason to blame themselves that they’re not getting pregnant or miscarrying. Right? So could you unpack that a little bit more? When you said sometimes you talked about the individual having to take a backseat, like you said, if you gave me your liver without giving me immunosuppressants, my body would reject it because it’s not self. And you said this a biological miracle when a baby, when you have a pregnancy and give birth because your body has to not see it as separate. Right? And we don’t give them any medications. This healer inside you knows how to do this. So can you speak a little of those? Is there something that maybe they can be or do or what kind of comfort or how can you unpack that a bit more? When you say sometimes it’s not like a right fit between the mother and the child, are you talking on a soul to soul level or are you talking on a matter to matter level or both?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah, but the matter to matter level is the most important one because that’s where you’re completely dependent on in that phase of your life. And don’t blame the mother for that because it’s on her unconscious level that these things happen. You cannot make her responsible for what they’re doing, they tried with hormones, they tried with all kinds of procedures, but again, they’re now looking for immuno. They’re now looking for maybe some kind of vaccination like treatments that you can help the mother to assist in. Not her unconscious. I am her unconscious spirit soul to reject the child. So maybe we can help them like that. And the same thing is with fertility. Nowadays, when I was a medical doctor, I learned that you had to wait three years. Three years. Two people, male and a female lived together and then had cohabitation and love with each other.

And when they were not successful with pregnancy, then you started to look at the problem. Seriously, nowadays people even want to plan their birth first. They want to make a career in Google and they freeze their excels and they want to plan the births of when they’re 40 years old and the white prince of the horse comes along, so many people don’t want to wait anymore. So I think that infertility has to do with impatience. And I know several friends, psychologists that treat these people, people that are infertile and they are successful. 60-50% of these people become pregnant because something in their soul is blocking their openness or their fertility. 

Lorne Brown 

We call it flow and receptivity. And our episode one or two, Dr. Randine Lewis talks about that. And in my work I call when we have, you’re calling it the soul, I call it just the subconscious mind. We can have these blocks of resistance. And when you have resistance on a subtle level, you don’t have this free flow of qi. And so anything, there’s the physical that we work with. And then in Chinese medicine we like to work with, we call the energetic, the subtle stuff that’s not always easy to measure. And so it sounds like you’re kind of talking about that as well. When somebody sees a psychologist, how they can remove these unconscious blocks, the patients part. When I see people that come to me and they’ve been maybe trying five years, so the patients I see, they’re beyond patient trying to be patient. They’ve been trying for so long, I don’t see the ones that just got married. So these people, it’s not an issue of being patient. And then age seems to be a factor still. I’m curious how you think of this, but if you marry late and you find somebody at the age of 40, you don’t have the luxury as well. And so we’re looking at both the physical and today the spiritual. 

I wanted to go on to the other part of you studying the embryo. So we talked about which thank you for answering, just kind of like how do you see this if things aren’t organized well? And you shared that the matter, there’s matter and spirit. It sounds like you’re talking and you have to have the right building blocks and if the building blocks are off, then we may miscarriage or have a disease and you’re sharing that no human being wants a disease and yet it sounds like it’s an opportunity to heal, to bring in your healer. Did I understand that kind of correctly or did I misunderstand any of that part?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah, but nowadays a tendency, Nietzche said we have two domains of health. We have smaller minor health and major. Minor health is the health of the body. That’s what we nowadays show adore. Then we define disease health as the absence of disease, the absence of pathology, the absence of handicap and health means that there is no handicap, there is no motility, there is no disease. But Nietzsche says major health is that what you perform with your handicap, with your disease, you might even die of cancer, but it doesn’t mean that you’re a loser. Absolutely. That’s another way to look at things

Lorne Brown 

In Chinese medicine. Same idea. Absence of disease does not mean health. Health is vitality. And then what you’re sharing is, or we’ll give an example, there are people that have severe handicaps and they are full of joy and live more than those that have been bestowed with great genetics,

Japp Van Der Wal 

Right? Yeah, that’s right.

Lorne Brown 

And then from studying embryology, what have you learned that helps you in the philosophy of life? Because you talked about when things start to multiply and grow, you get cancer. So it’s not all about cell division. You get cancer and there’s this organizing idea. And I’m just curious. Often if you study one thing really well, I find that you can see the answers to life everywhere. That’s the whole idea of the Dao, right? And so when you think about our world, about our environment, about how we live as a society, about economy, what is your understanding of the embryo, having watched it and studied it, what insights does it give to you about how we live on this planet and how we can live?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah, let’s go back to Blechschmidt says there is earth, you have to perform your behavior. You have to perform in shapes and forms in the body. Then you perform on the physiological level and then you perform the same just on psychological. But there’s also sociology. The Steiner says for example, if you want to understand, if you want to create a good organism, a good society, a good social organism, we have to learn from the living beings how you organize. And we have completely forgotten. We look at the physical world, our economies are growing according to the cancer model. Economic growth has nothing to do anymore with growth. It’s a cancer like limitless more and more of the same. And that’s why our planet is dying on that because we don’t fit in this planet anymore because we forgot what it is to be a living being and how life has its restrictions and its possibilities. But maybe evolution is not about survival of the fittest. Maybe evolution is also about the giving up of the one. I mean giving up, giving space, giving room for the new and not only the best one or the fittest one will survive. There are two mechanisms in evolution and we have become a cancer on this planet. We have become. Yeah, that’s what I learned from the embryo. How to live in harmony, in restriction and also not only in multiplication and more and more. It’s very difficult to find the words.

Lorne Brown 

Yeah. I’m wondering if you can talk a little more about that. The embryo tells you how to live with restriction in harmony. So how do you live? Or if you were to teach and educate people how to live, what are some of the suggestions? I hear that if you’re just looking for growth more, more, we see that in the embryonic stage that that’s cancer, right? And that’s good. But there’s an organizing idea. So any philosophical ideas around that 

Japp Van Der Wal 

Life itself? The keyword for life is equilibrium. The middle, the in-between the heart, the rhythm in your heart. You can die in two ways. It can go too fast. And then you can form and shape it more and more in flow and time. And then it stands still. I mean life is the equilibrium, the middle, the in between, the extremes of pathology and anthropology. We talk about Aman and Lucifer. Lucifer too much spiritual or too much anatomical or physical or too much shape or too much chaos, cos that is life. Life is always finding the middle, the yin and yang in the middle, the equilibrium, the oneness. And that’s what I think the embryo and life is telling us. It cannot live on in only a material dimension. We completely materialize our mind, our world. And the embryo says, well, a restriction and modesty and harmony and balancing. That’s what we have to find.

Lorne Brown 

Thank you for that. And many, myself included people I see we’re looking to kind of remember that soul part of us to reconnect, to reconnect to that soul part where we feel profound peace. And many of the guests I have, this is what they talk about when they call consciousness, that conscious wants to experience itself through you. And I often hear them say, and we’re going to tie this into the embryo that conscious needs to have, we exist so it can experience itself. Because if you’re in water, that’s not the example they use. But you have to separate in order to know yourself, you can’t know yourself. And you talk a little bit about this, there’s another dimension ourselves, the spirit and that you can only be aware of something if you separate from it. So again, going into philosophy of life, kind of like why are we here? Right?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah. Why are we here?

Lorne Brown

Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that from the embryo perspective? Because we want, it seems like we’re born and then we’re constantly wanting to remember ourselves. It’s like duality and non-duality. You got to hold them at the same time. And I’m just curious what your thoughts are. How you describe this is that you have to separate from it so you can become aware of it.

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah, I simply meant with that, that the card is always the one everybody agrees with or you are the opponent of the card. And that has to do with the interpretation. The card didn’t say, I think therefore am in his writings, he says there must be something in me that is something else than my body. Because otherwise I wouldn’t know about my body. That is so to say the basics of yin and yang. If you are one with something, you cannot become aware of it. If we were air, you would never know where the air, the atmosphere would start and where you would end. I mean, if you are one with something, you can never become aware. I can never perceive you or hear you or become aware of the world. If I am connected with myself I have to be something else in me. And that’s what the card says, the card said, there must be something else in me that is not similar to the matter.

The rest extends to the body. That must be something else. That is what in me is thinking. That is what I am feeling. That is something. It must be completely different. And many people think that a card means that it is a duality. That mind and body is a twofold. It’s not a twofold, it’s a polarity. Jing and young is a polarity, not a duality. And it is a difference. A polarity is one, the one belongs to the other. And together they are one, a sperm and an egg belong to each other. When a sperm comes to an egg, it’s a polarity, and then the egg is healed and the sperm is healed. I mean that is polarity. And duality is simply when you make soul and body a duality, you say they have nothing to do with each other. And then you also can say, well, spirit does not exist because they cannot measure it.

They cannot make it hard. So you deny it. But spirit is the polarity of the body. And there is always one, there is no spirit without matter. There’s no matter without spirit. That’s a simple conclusion. And that is what often goes wrong that people do not realize. For example, men and women, male and female, it’s not a duality nowadays. Everybody is shouting. Well, the difference between the male is very vague, is very, no, it’s not very vague. They are polarities. They are extremely different. We are completely opposite of each other. And that’s nice because then we can create together something, a dimension, which is as well, male as well, female, neither male nor female. That is what is going on now. But people think that they make everything neutral. Now we have to neutralize male, infants, never neutralize them. If you neutralize it, then the most important potency goes away. And that is the potency of creating an in-between to creating a third dimension, which is as well the one as well as the other. That’s what the card says. There’s a tuna in it and the tuna belongs to each other. Amen.

Lorne Brown 

Amen. I was like, I have to read you a quote from Einstein because you embody this as well based on how you’ve used science to come to this spiritual understanding, and Einstein’s quote is, everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe. A spirit vastly superior to that of man. And one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. And it sounds like people think, just like you said, it’s a polarity spirit and science. They’re not separate. It’s just the polarity. They’re one. And by diving deeply into the science and studying embryology, you’ve come through and found the spirit side of it. And that’s yin yang, right? Yin yang is relative polarity. If you have a cup, you can’t have an inside without the outside. And vice versa, right? They coexist. And by them coexisting, you can see the inside, you can see the outside. And this makes me think that’s what happens with the embryo, right? You have what? The mesoderm and the endoderm, is that what they’re called?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah. Yeah.

Lorne Brown

Same thing. They’re one, they’re not really separate.

Japp Van Der Wal 

That’s right. And that is science. So many people think that science is that scientists gather data and phenomena and out of these data and phenomena, they draw conclusions. No, that’s not, I know what science is. I was a professional anatomy. I had a terrific job of scientific work about connective tissue. I’m an expert, I’m a scientist. I know what science is. Science is not gathering data and drawing out of that conclusion that are objective. No, science is having something in your mind, an idea, and searching for the facts that are in harmony with that idea. And if the facts are not in harmony with the idea, you have to throw away the idea, not facts. And that’s what they do nowadays. And I have another view. I have a lens telescope. I have glasses that can see polarity. And when you look with glasses of polarities around the world, you see it everywhere. It depends on your pre-scientific mind.

Lorne Brown 

What do you see going on in our world? Because it looks very polarized politically. Is this part of evolution? And we’re birthing, we’re developing from the placenta. So what’s happening to mankind in your view? I only ask this question because you say you have the lens of polarity. Some people can see what’s going on in the world. And then I’m curious, do you see this as another birth, death where

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yes, yes. Or a developing beck. I mean maybe evolution was all about creating the possibility of a being that can think on its own and free. And the human consciousness, the human, and maybe the future is that we reconnect with the world, the reality where we come from, because we come from heaven. If there is a heaven, we come from it. That’s what Einstein says, using words. This universe also is spirit. There is intelligence. So maybe we have to reconnect with that. But reconnection doesn’t mean that you put it on the analysis of your anatomy table and dissect it. No. You have to connect with the matter. Connect with reality. Finding sense, meaning science doesn’t separate it from science, so to say. Disconnect from reality. And the phenomenologist tries to reconnect with reality. What does it mean? What has it to do with me if I would have the time? Now I will tell you that you still have a placenta. It’s very simple.

We all live again in the placenta, the whole universe, the whole world is our placenta. We have to reconnect with that. So simple. It is. And that’s not by science. That’s only by love and wisdom.

Lorne Brown 

Love and wisdom. And in your course, the embryo in us humans is an embryo. Do you, because you have four days, do you teach people how to reconnect to their placenta then? Do you?

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah, I teach them to use these lens telescope glasses, these polarity glasses, and then they can start to do it themselves and then polarize. When is polarization wrong in America when you have the Democrats and the Republican, because that’s not the polarity, that’s duality and dualities make war. But if they could discover that they were in each other, that the Democrats have elements on the inside, which had the Democrats on the outside, then they could find a polar way of polarization that connects. That’s what sperm and an act do. They polarize so strongly with each other that there is a new possibility. And that’s the zygote. That’s how to do it.

Lorne Brown 

That’s how to do it.

Japp Van Der Wal 

Dialogue,

Lorne Brown 

Dialogue,

Japp Van Der Wal 

Communication, exchange. The middle and the middle in this moment is dying everywhere. Everywhere. We lose contact with the middle. The in-between. Look at the yin and yang. The secret of the yin and yang is the black tot in the white and the white tot in the black. That’s the secret.

Lorne Brown 

Each one contains the other. And when you reach the peak of one, that’s where the beginning of the other is. And like you say, there is no majority, I think most of the population on the planet are in the middle, but most of our governments are duality. Extreme. Nobody represents the middle anymore. It’s very far. Call it left very far right. However

Japp Van Der Wal

That’s not cold names.

Lorne Brown 

If we see everything is kind of not the word replicating, but with our lens that you’ve shared, maybe out of this chaos that we’re experiencing will come a new organizing order and I don’t know, I often think I’m made up of trillions of cells, but I’m not my cells. My body’s made up of trillions of cells. Maybe I should use my language better. I have the souls inside. So my body’s made up of trillions of cells and I’m not aware of my cells, but I’m yet, I’m made up of trillions of cells. And you said, I’m making a couple of million cells here and there. And when a cell dies, when a liver cell dies, me, the whole doesn’t mourn it. I’m not even aware of it. I don’t know if the liver cell is freaking out. Oh no, I’m dying. I’m dying. I don’t know. And so the earth could be like a cell in the cosmos, right?

Japp Van Der Wal 

By the way, your liver is a very intelligent organ. It’s the most intelligent organ you have. Your liver knows already for a million years what to do with cholesterol. After four centuries of science with the brain, we still don’t know what to do with cholesterol.

Lorne Brown :

What the liver does,

Japp Van Der Wal 

It’s another way of knowing your body is knowledge, wisdom. 

Lorne Brown 

Tap into that knowledge

And you can tap into that knowledge through Dr. Japp Van Der Wall’s online courses. So his website again is embryo nl. I’m going to put in the show notes and he offers these four day webinars, so live webinars that you can join. You get access to the recording. It’s called The Embryo in Us Human as Embryo. And the tagline is, understanding ourselves as embryos and how that relates to our consciousness and psychosomatic being. So do check out his website. Japp, thank you very much for making the time today to just talk about embryology from a, I didn’t know what to expect today and from a totally different perspective of just nuts and bolts. It was nice to just hear a different perspective. Hope my listeners enjoyed it as well. And again, check his website for other articles, books, and chapters and videos. Thank you. Japp.

Japp Van Der Wal

Yeah. Don’t forget that every sentence we discussed is about two hours in my course. I mean, I came up with concepts so huge and tell them so simple here in this talk, but okay, that’s what has to happen.

Lorne Brown 

And then I just think when some of the listeners, because they’ll say, but how’s this going to help me get pregnant when they’re looking to conceive? Because you talked about where it sounds like when you think of ICSI, it’s forcing things, but humanity is constantly using nature and stuff for its benefit, for its pleasure as well.

Japp Van Der Wal 

Yeah. Yeah.

Lorne Brown 

So what is available? People are dieting. They’re doing lifestyle, but it sounds like there’s another, it’s not up to us whether a baby comes through us, basically. Correct.

Japp Van Der Wal 

That’s right.

Lorne Brown 

We don’t make

Japp Van Der Wal 

Not only we. Yeah, but we can close doors. We can open doors, but that’s another thing. I invite people in my courses to tell stories about them. And you wouldn’t believe how often people tell stories. They never talked about how they became pregnant. And most of the time it’s unplanned, it’s unexpected. And why do people suddenly make love? Yeah, that comes from hormones. It’s other hormones. Yeah, no, no. Suppose that there is a spirit, I mentioned that also might knock on your door. I have such experiences myself that we experienced one evening, something happens, what is it? What is it? And nine months later it was clear what happened. I mean

Lorne Brown 

Can you elaborate? When you talk, you subscribe to that idea that spirit can knock on your door. You’ve had your experience. I know my firstborn, I’ll share a story if you want to share a story. When we conceived, when our son was conceived at the early stages, it looked like based on hormones and ultrasound that we’d probably miscarried based on what they saw.

And my wife and I do, which I do now in my practice, this is over 20 years ago, a form of surrender. We went to a park and picnicked around some trees and we just, rather than trying to force this, wanting it and being so attached to it, we went with the idea that there’s a soul that’s coming in through this baby. And we said basically, we would love to be your parents, but we want you to do what’s in your best interest. And so if coming into our family, which we will and want and already love you, is in your best interest, then come in. But if it’s not the right time for you, then don’t come in. We want what’s best for you. And that was it. We were at peace in an unhappy situation. We were told we were going to lose this pregnancy. We didn’t want to lose it, but there was a sense of peace in that unhappiness. We weren’t fighting, we didn’t have resistance. It was beautiful. And then he’s 20, 21 years old now. So that was our experience of letting go. And I’m just curious, so you said you have your own personal story, which sounded like with your child where you got a knock on the door. Can you share a little bit about that?

Japp Van Der Wal 

A story that I hear often from people and to us, it happened in the following way. I was a medical student, three years old, and then unplanned. We became pregnant. So we married and there was a child after nine months, and then we said, okay, we will have no more children than only this one because the world, the future already the arguments why it should be one child, another. And then seven years later, when we still are, and we said to each other, when you are finished with your study and you are a medical doctor, then we can start to adopt children. So six years later, we adopted a 14 year old child and she became a member of the family and she stayed with us until the 23rd. Then suddenly on an evening, there was a colleague, I had a conversation that evening. We were talking about business, about teaching about your anatomy.

And then I let him out and come back to the room. And then suddenly my wife said, Japp, I want to ask you something. And I said, out of the blue, you want a child? She said, yes. I say, that’s okay. Then there came a feeling around it. I mean, it was so crazy. It was like a sacrum. What happens here? Where are the arguments? We sat next to each other every year. Again, one child, only one child, because more children is not good. And suddenly, we had to stop with the Antico concept. We had to discuss our arguments and through Hewell, and then a few months later, we became pregnant over a woman that’s now 47 years old, maybe that is such a moment that something someone knocks on your door and you understand that. You interpret that as, oh, I would like to have a child with you. So maybe it is about the ears. Have you ever seen the anatomy of your fallopian tubes? Two ovaries, two ovaries, two fallopian tubes and a uterus. Vagina, two ears, two eustachian tubes. And there comes a larynx. The larynx is also about reproduction, spiritual reproduction in the speech, in what we think speech is what we think. Speech is not communication, but human speech is expressing your inner voice. So this is also an expression, a spiritual expression of ourselves. So maybe we should head for a spiritual reproduction, not only for body reproduction

Lorne Brown

Well, as you said, it’s polarity. So I’m a fan of integration. So we’re getting really good at the physical world. And the whole idea of the conscious work that I do in my practice in this podcast is to get practice at the spiritual side of it so we can have that, what did you call When they unite, right? When the polarities come together we fuse together to create life. Absolutely. Do you like my background? I do like your background. I see it looks like a baby. And is that like the Cosmo universe?

Japp Van Der Wal

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lorne Brown 

Thank you very much, Japp. So I just wanted to summarize or just add this part at the end, that this was an interesting talk. I didn’t know where it was going to go. As I said at the beginning, it’s just always interesting how when you go deep into science, like Einstein says, you find the spiritual side and there are so many teachers of consciousness out there, so many people that are looking to have or grow their family. I just encourage you to look at conscious work and if this has an interest to you, then do check out on the Acubalance website, our blog section or just contact us. I’m happy to chat with you. I do sessions online and in person. When I do acupuncture and laser treatments. What I take home for me from this is that it’s a fusion. And so the physical, you’re eating well, you’re taking supplements, herbs, you may be doing IVF.

So you’re doing the physical as best you can, and then the spiritual side. And it’s a totally different approach and that’s what I call conscious work or belief change work. And there’s so many people doing that helping you release trauma. So there’s books on it and there’s so many people out there providing that support. So I encourage you to look at that aspect as well. So it’s not mind and body, it’s mind. Body or spirit. Body or spirit matter. And again, I have a few blogs on this topic and videos, and I offer this in my practice and also via telehealth. If you’re interested, explore conscious work, belief change work. Thank you for listening to the Conscious Fertility Podcast. If you want to know when the next episodes are released, if you subscribe, my understanding is you get a notification automatically when we release our episodes. Thank you.

Speaker 3 

If you’re looking for support to grow your family, contact Acubalance Wellness Center at A-C-U-Balance. They help you reach your peak fertility potential through their integrative approach using low level laser therapy, fertility, acupuncture, and naturopathic medicine. Download the Acubalance Fertility Diet and Dr. Brown’s video for mastering manifestation and clearing subconscious blocks. Go to acubalance ca. That’s acubalance ca.

Lorne Brown

Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Conscious Fertility, the show that helps you receive life on purpose. Please take a moment to subscribe to the show and join the community of women and men on their path to peak fertility and choosing to live consciously on purpose. I would love to continue this conversation with you, so please direct message me on Instagram at Lorne Brown official. That’s Instagram, Lorne Brown official, or you can visit my websites Lornebrown.com and Acubalance.ca. Until the next episode, stay curious and for a few moments, bring your awareness to your heart center and breathe.