Londin Angel Winters 

I know the pain of not having the baby in your arms. I know the pain of getting your hopes up and then the pregnancy isn’t viable. I know the pain of dedicating so many resources in your body and it doesn’t happen, and it really brought me to my knees and I searched in my soul, okay, if a baby isn’t meant for me, how am I going to really take advantage of this lifetime and not give up on everything?

Lorne Brown 

By listening to the Conscious Fertility Podcast, you agree to not use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition and either yourself or others, consult your own physician or healthcare provider for any medical issues that you may be having. This entire disclaimer also applies to any guests or contributors to the podcast. Welcome to Conscious Fertility, the show that listens to all of your fertility questions so that you can move from fear and suffering to peace of mind and joy. My name is Lorne Brown. I’m a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine and a clinical hypnotherapist. I’m on a mission to explore all the paths to peak fertility and joyful living. It’s time to learn how to be and receive so that you can create life on purpose.

Today on the Conscious Fertility Podcast, we’re going to talk about intimacy. So we’re going to talk about sex. Actually, I was thinking as I say this out loud, does this mean this one’s going to get banned on social media? It’s going to be a Triple X. We’ll have to figure out how to get this out there. And I have on with me bestselling author, intimacy teachers, Justin Patrick Pierce and Londin Angel Winters. And they’re both parents. They’re actually partners and they’re passionate lovers and they’re actually known internationally for their transformative work and personal growth and sacred intimacy. And their co-authors of two books, their latest playing with Fire, their spiritual Path of Intimate relationship. And the other one is the Awaken Women’s Guide to Everlasting Love. And together they do lead transformative retreats including their signature training, yoga of Intimacy. And this came about because we have a mutual client and she speaks so highly of you guys and your work has been transformative for her that she connected us. And here we are. I want to say welcome Londin and Justin to the Conscious Fertility Podcast.

Londin Angel Winters 

Thank you. Happy to be here. Thanks for having us.

Lorne Brown 

I’m going to just dive in and channel the women I’m seeing in my practice and just this week common questions I get. So I would like to talk about baby making sex. So I want to talk about this. This becomes a struggle for some. I want to talk about sex in the perimenopause and menopause year. One of the women I saw the other day said her sex drive is crazy and her man is not meeting her needs and she’s struggling. I want to talk about the women I see through the fertility journey end up having a hit on their man, not a good hit like resentment. So I want to talk about that. If we have time, if not we’ll have to have a part two, sex after baby, right? And because it’s a Conscious Fertility podcast, I’m thinking it’s the intimacy part, sexuality as a spiritual journey as a way back to self. So that is my intention today. Are you guys up for this?

Londin Angel Winters 

All in

Lorne Brown 

Alright

Londin Angel Winters 

All in.

Lorne Brown

Now I think right away we have to let our listeners know a little bit about your story because you had challenges getting pregnant. So infertility is either not getting pregnant or in your case having multiple miscarriages, but you were 47 when you conceived naturally. I got to say that again because for our listeners, a lot of them here, 35 and you’re done from the internet. So I’m really interested in your story. Are you willing and can you share just what brought you to writing your book, playing with fire and your fertility journey? That was something I learned about you guys when I was prepping that you actually had your own fertility journey, which I was not aware of until about a week ago.

Londin Angel Winters 

I know the pain of not having the baby in your arms. I know the pain of getting your hopes up and then the pregnancy isn’t viable. I know the pain of dedicating so many resources in your body and it doesn’t happen. I know that pain so well. And I had had five miscarriages, one particularly difficult late one where my milk came in. It was like an extra kick in the pants to have your milk come in with no baby. And it really brought me to my knees and I searched in my soul, if a baby isn’t meant for me, how am I going to really take advantage of this lifetime and not give up on everything? And I thought, well, the upside of not having a baby is endless amounts of free time. And so what could I do to really love that free time?

I could write a book with Justin. And so we set out to write our first book, the Awakened Women’s Guide. It took us a year of intensive work. We really poured ourselves into that being more than just an ebook, that being an actual transmission. And on the day, literally the day that I had my book revealing party, I announced that I was pregnant and that was our daughter Ava, who ended up being a perfect pregnancy. And then I gave birth at 48 years old at home. So we were really lucky, but there are ways that you don’t have to rely on luck. The kind of sex you can have that I believe got me pregnant so many times. And so I’m happy to talk about that kind of sex because I never really had a problem getting pregnant. It just took a little while to stay pregnant. And then I do want to just hint for the future that we had the best sex of our lives after pregnancy and we were already sacred intimacy teachers having world class experiences and sexuality, but the whole experience of being pregnant and giving birth and then meeting a newborn allowed us to deepen something that made the sex even more amazing. And some people really fear what’s going to happen and I just want to be a beacon of hope that it can be holistic and integrative and just constantly set you on a deeper path.

Lorne Brown 

You mentioned it brought you to your knees, right? This journey when I think of brought to your knees and how these miracle babies come in at 47, 1 of my mentors used to say that in your early age you have a lot of jing, so physical strength in the body, but you’re spiritually immature, the shen. And then as you get into your forties, your physical decline. So if you’re going to have a baby in your mid forties, you got to have your shit together and be spiritually mature. That energy is what’s going to bring in that miracle. It’s got to override the lessening of a physical body. In Chinese medicine, a big part of fertility is about flowing, receptivity, and you have to be into this state of allowing receptivity. There’s the allowing part. You said you’re brought to your knees and when people are brought to the knees, sometimes they fully surrender. Do you think in that process before you conceived writing the book, writing that book that was at the Awakened Women’s Guide, was that like a spiritual journey then? Were you different at the time of that conception at 47 than you were those five miscarriages? Did you have a shift?

Londin Angel Winters 

I did. I had an unacknowledged ambivalence about having a baby because there’s a lot of sacrifice that I think you’re yearning to have. A baby doesn’t acknowledge the other part of you that knows you’re going to lay down your life for this experience. And that unacknowledged ambivalence really contributed to me not being a full body. And by the time Ava came, I had the paradox of complete surrender. Totally fine if I didn’t have a baby. But also I had gotten to a point where each one of those miscarriages were five babies for me because each baby taught me something on its way out. I mean truly, I could write a book about each one of those five and how each one of those was a consciousness that came to me, taught me something and then left. And by the time Ava came, I was so keen to the idea that a pregnancy for however long it is, is a visitation.

And that I started just saying yes and then saying yes and meeting her every single day. I didn’t meet her from I’m going to make this last. I had this playlist I would play and I would go walk on the beach every day of that pregnancy because everyone was telling me this would never work. You’re way too old. It’s going to be a disaster. And I would walk on the beach and I would meet her and we would talk and we would connect and I would look at what I needed to do to step into motherhood, simple stuff. Instead of mourning the fact that I couldn’t eat sushi, I’d be like, I’m ready to not eat sushi, mourning the fact I was supposed to walk all these miles a day. I’m ready to do this. I’m ready for you. And I can’t tell you how many times a dolphin would come in the water. And it just became very much a journey of her and me together. And then the birth was the same. And then to lay eyes on this person that you’ve been meeting all this time was crazy.

Lorne Brown 

One of the things you said there, I mean you said a lot there and just the sharing of how you had that connection to each of those babies and then you came to this place where you’re okay whether you have a baby or not, so fully not attached to form an outcome. And I interpret that as no resistance. There’s that flow and receptivity and when there’s resistance, you block the flow and energy, which my mentor has shared about you need this flow and receptivity and then here you are. How old is she now at the time of recording?

Londin Angel Winters 

Six and a half.

Lorne Brown 

Six and a half. So I want to learn more about this journey then in writing the book. Let’s talk about, again, channeling my audience, thinking what they want to hear. I have what I want to hear too, but I’m going to make sure I make it about them first. The baby making sex. So in my practice, people are trying a lot, like they’re having regular intercourse. The intention behind its change. Some guys will have performance anxiety, the sex becomes not so much fun. The guys get to see what it’s like to be on the receiving end to be treated like a piece of meat, I guess as some expressed it to me, right? I’m curious what it was like for you guys. More importantly, I’m looking for coaching towards how people right now are like, yeah, we’re trying to have a baby and we’re going to be having sex, but it is not enjoyable anymore. And I’m very curious about how this is a spiritual process. Imagining that surrender, what brought you to the knees because of struggle. I’m imagining good sex is a form of surrender as well. So I’m curious to hear,

Londin Angel Winters 

I’ll start and then I would love for Justin because we coach couples in this and Justin has a lot to offer here about how to invite your man into that moment. That’s so important because sometimes women forget to invite their man in, it’s more just like, Hey, we got the red light from the app or the green light from the app. So get it up and get it in. You know what I mean?

Lorne Brown 

Right. Yeah.

Londin Angel Winters 

That’s not going to work. So I want to let Justin talk about that. He’s got a lot of beautiful wisdom there. But I do want to speak to the actual sex act. One of the things that I can’t recommend enough, and it speaks exactly to what you’ve already said of flow receptivity. There’s a practice in sacred sexuality of being a complete and total full body yes to your man. And the practice is oriented towards women learning how to have full body orgasms where your whole body looks like a bellowing sheet. I mean something takes over and pleasure’s running through every single square inch of your body. So the way women learn how to have this kind of orgasm and have it last for minutes and minutes and minutes is through 100% full body, yes to him. Now, if you have resentments against him, that’s going to be in your tissues.

You’re going to be bracing yourself while at the same time you are wanting the sex, you’re pushing him out, maybe you have your own trauma locked in your cervix. And so there’s that element of an acidic kind of tension based receptivity. If a woman can meet that moment and truly let down all of those guards to the point where her body is a jellyfish and she doesn’t squeeze a single muscle through one step of the process, not only can the sex become incredibly delicious and orgasmic, but she feels herself as a yes to him. And I think the thing that goes unacknowledged in sexuality is that his sperm is him. And if you have a beef against him, however unacknowledged, you have a maybe no to his sperm and it’s like you want the sex so much, but you’re kind of guarding yourself against him while you get it.

If you can let that go and work out those resentments, work out those blocks such that when you look at him, you say, yes, I want you and I want you all the way in me and will move so slow. This is on him, will move so slow that you’re entering me so slowly that all of my pedals open. With every square inch, you will have a woman that is literally sucking you in and that’s the best chance for that sperm to meet the egg. It also leads to a lot of wetness, a lot of pH. I don’t want to get medical, because I don’t know the medical, but I could just feel that my pH was a yes, my wetness was a yes, my cervix was soft. I could just feel. And every time I got pregnant, I had one of those moments where I just wanted Justin to penetrate all the way into my heart.

Lorne Brown

When you talk about being that receptive, and it sounds like rather than a very sexual orgasm, a body orgasm, the way you describe it and you’re like, I think you described jellyfish, how do you get there if you’re resentful? We talked about the issue and if they’re resentful, like we’re having fertility issues, I’m quoting, somebody’s going to be listening, he’s quoting me. No, this happens. I hear this multiple times. So it’s not a one-off. We’re having infertility issues because he made us wait. So there’s that resentment. Now I’m older and now I’m not getting pregnant. There’s whatever the resentment is, there’s some resentment, there’s some hate. So how do you get to that place where they have that trust and they can receive him? And I will hint to people that they talk a lot about this in their book Playing with Fire. So do check out their book.

We won’t get to such detail in our webinar, but there is a way to get there. But I thought maybe you can share a bit of that. And I want to add, because I remember in my practice majority and I do conscious work with the acupuncture and low level laser therapy. So I have sessions where I’m doing, we call it spiritual work if you want, but it’s conscious work, belief change work. I don’t work with couples, I work with individuals that are couples because I just got to go on a short tangent where I’m going to ask you this question. Everybody is a mirror in that sense. So when you heal, you don’t need your partner to change. When you change, you’re going to see them differently and your wifi changes and often they start to behave differently, but you don’t need them anymore because you’ve shifted inside.

So when men come to my practice, they usually come months, months later because I always tell them, they go, I’m going to tell my husband to come and I know why they’re saying this. I want my husband, I want you to fix my husband. I need my husband to see you. And I go, don’t tell him about this. They’re like, why wouldn’t I? And I go model it. He will one day, it may take three months, it may take a year. One day he’s going to say, why are you this way? What’s happened? And then you can tell him what you’ve done. And then he’ll say, I want that. And that’s how they end up coming into my practice. And I ask him, do you know what I do? And they go, I have no clue what you do, but it seemed to have worked for my partner.

So what do you do? Right? So now here’s the tangent part because the biggest question is they’re wanting this healthy relationship, but they’re the ones showing up doing the work. Hint for my work, only one person needs to be conscious to have a holy relationship. That’s the great news. But you are deferring to Justin, but you seem to have a very open, healthy man in your life. But some of them don’t think they have that. So I just wanted you to answer this, remembering they don’t all have Justin or they don’t think they have a Justin. Maybe they do, they’re just not aware of it. So I just wanted you to have that in mind because right now the women are like, I want this. My guy’s not available. He’s not interested in doing Lorne’s conscious work. He’s not going to go to your retreat as of now. So how am I going to get this? I want it.

Londin Angel Winters 

Just so you know, how I attracted Justin was exactly what you said because I was a deep practitioner. I didn’t tell him about the work. I lived the work. And at one point he was like, why are you so different? And I said, well, let me introduce you to sacred sexuality. So, that’s also how you get the guy. Great.

Lorne Brown 

Why don’t you tell them a little? Because what was Justin like before you guys became a couple? Because you guys had known each other, maybe dated, then you weren’t. And now you’re married, right? You’re together, you have a child together. I think it’s fair to just let them know so they can relate to you what your relationship was like and where it is now.

Justin Patrick Pierce

Of course, I think it would even be helpful for them to know that you were married prior to our relationship and you’ve been through some stuff in a previous relationship before we even met.

Londin Angel Winters 

I was married and divorced. I’ve been in terrible situations, cheated on, lied to. I’ve had some really tough experiences in the field of relationship. And then I found the work that we teach now, and I really learned how to come into my heart and come into my body and live in a way of surrendering to the moment that allowed me to attract, get out of things that were hurting me and start to really live in union with myself, which brought same thing that the baby happened, like un attachment to meeting a man, but absolute desire. And I’m 14 years older than my husband Justin. And we had no intention of getting together. He was like 24 when I met him. And I was almost 40 and I felt like 2 million lifetimes older than him. But his consciousness was so profound that he was trumping the men that I was dating.

And my willingness to soften and love was way more than what he was experiencing with the models that he was dating people. Though I had so many wrinkles, I could never compete with them on that level. But I was interested in him because I was available for love. And he was interesting to me because he was so dropped into his awareness and we just ended up coming together. And I was at that time a practitioner of sacred sexuality, but I wasn’t objectifying him as a practice partner. I just wanted to commune with him. I never once told him about the work, I just lived it. And at one point he said, what exactly is going on over there? And I said, well, I’m actually involved in a practice. Would you like to learn about it? And he was like, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me.

And I was like, I don’t either, but it’s a fun thing to do. And today he’s a legendary teacher and innovator of the work. I mean, it’s just profound that he’s even involved in it, much less leading the industry in the places that it’s going. And then we spent about 10 years playing together and then we tried to create a family. It didn’t work, but we stayed on the same team through every miscarriage, especially the really brutal one. We stayed on the same team. And that’s the one advice I have as you go to get pregnant, you’ve got to stay on the same team. Even if you find out it’s his sperm count, that’s the problem. Stay on his team. Even if you find out that it’s her scar tissue, stay on the same team. And I see couples, they sort of become opponents and now they’re in this bad reality show where they’re trying to win the show and they’re going against each other in the episodes.

And so we stayed on the same team through all of that difficulty and we got closer and closer. And I’ll tell you the number one way to avoid getting into a terrible situation where you resent your man is to keep showing and expressing your heart with not your defenses. Not the thing that’s on top of your heart that just wants to lash at him, but to really soften into your heart and let him see you because he loves you. And when he can see you, he knows who to love. And Justin really loved me through all of that pain, and that’s how we stayed on the same team. And we also have a model that is really helpful called the I see IFeel practice that helps awareness come together with sensitivity and keeps you united.

Lorne Brown 

Can you unpack your I see I feel this is a big part of your practice, I see I feel and what’s the intention behind it and what’s the kind of outcome? I always find this kind of work is an inner process, inner experience. So sometimes it’s not so wow, watching it as it is experiencing it, is that going to be like what we’re going to talk about now? It’s nice to know the concept, but it’s one of those things you could read about chocolate ice cream, all you want, but you got to taste it to know what chocolate ice cream is, right? If you’ve never had it before,

Justin Patrick Pierce

Well, we demonstrate these techniques a lot in front of audiences and they’re able to taste it or experience it or sense it because it’s not merely an internal one bodied practice. The work and the technique that we teach, we’re talking about the I see I feel practice. This technology, it’s not a form of therapy, it’s a form of yogic meditation. When we normally go to sit and meditate, we’ll sit by ourselves and it’ll be an internal process. But in this body of work, what we are doing is we’re doing a two bodied meditation, two bodied meditation, and we’re staying in the present moment together. That’s the starting point. We could even demonstrate this for a moment if that’d be useful. Other people watching,

Lorne Brown 

I want you to, I’m already excited, you said present moment because to me that’s a key there. Present moment, surrender resistance. These are all key things that I have found with all the people I interview. If there’s a component of that, you’re going to have some really nice healing.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

Now, this is the part of the practice that can feel really strange to people. They’ve never actually done this with a human being before, so it could bring up a lot of vulnerabilities. People think it’s weird, people think it’s silly. But once you get a human being to actually sit down and experience this, your life can change very quickly to find out that level of human connection is actually possible. Because generally the closest we get to this is maybe we’ll go to a therapy session or sit down and have an open-hearted conversation. But this is a very different experience because we’re actually merging our two bodies together without touching. And so the way that we start this is we point to our own left eye and we look into the partner’s left eye, and once we’re looking in the eye, we lower our hands down so we’re connected eye to eye and basically through this eye contact, what we’re saying silently to ourselves and our partners, I see I’m willing to see you in this moment just as you are. The second thing that we bring is a deep, full feeling breath. Because you’ll notice if you just look someone in the eye without breathing, it can feel very cold and sterile. You’re judging someone or we’re looking into a Petri dish and that’s not what we want for intimacy. So as we keep eye contact, the next thing we do is we begin to deepen our own breath because breath brings feeling.

Londin Angel Winters 

I just want to say if I can’t breathe with him, I can’t receive him in love making, just learning how to breathe with him. I’m learning how to ungard with him. And by unguarding with him, I’m inviting his sperm to meet my egg. It’s microcosm macrocosm. And so you can practice that moment here.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

And so as we’re breathing, we’re not just breathing heavily into our chest. As we inhale, we’re bringing the breath down to the body and you can feel your lower belly expand the perineum at the base of the body, the genitals, and the thighs are actually expanding. The soft tissues expand as we imagine drawing the breath into the lower body. And then as we exhale, the exhale just softly rises like mist off a waterfall, up through the heart, the throat, the head. And when I say the breath is moving or rising, all you’re doing is you’re just moving your feeling attention through the body. So it’s not like breath is actually going to the genitals, but it’s your attention that actually moves down. So with each breath, I inhale and I’m actually scanning my body and feeling sensation.

And then as I exhale feeling sensation inside the body and up. Now you’ll notice Londin and I are already synchronized in our breath, and that’s what we want to do. So what you want to do with your partner is as your partner inhales, you inhale as your partner exhales you exhale. Now we’re starting to get our bodies into entrainment. So what we’re doing is without even saying it, we’re communicating. I’m present with you, I’m here with you, I’m present with you. I’m aware and sensitive because I’m able to track your breath and stay with you.

It’s so much more powerful than saying I’m present because you’re demonstrating you’re present. So from here, connected eye to eye, breath to breath. The last piece is to make sure that your body is open and unguarded. So we’re not doing this with our arms crossed like this. We have to make sure that the front surface of the body is open and available. And what this does is now it’s connecting and flowing the energy from the genitals through the heart to the head, back down through the heart and genitals. So now you have this energetic flow that’s not only happening in your body, but also in your partners, and you’re doing that together. So before we show you the practice, this is just the starting point of our practice. This is just where it begins. Let’s demonstrate the opposite. We all know that when we’re in a bad mood, we don’t look in the eyes, we close and guard our body, and we certainly don’t breathe deeply. This is the embodiment of a bad mood and resentment.

And so long as that ego is in the way and one or both of you are just going to be like, well, until you, this is all you get. Well, the practice hasn’t begun. The real healing hasn’t begun yet. And so in our spiritual maturity, even if we are hurting, even if there’s resentments or losses of trust, even if I’m sad, I’m at least going to give you eye contact, an open unguarded body in a full feeling breath. Because if I’m not willing to do that, why am I in a relationship with you? If I can’t at least give that, what are we doing? So this is when we come out of our childishness and say, Hey, maybe that you’re hurting. Maybe I’m hurting, but I love you and I love you at least willing to look into your eyes, breathe with you and show up when my defense is down.

Londin Angel Winters 

Now, a lot of people think that to do this, you’re supposed to be happy, horny and grateful. The magic of this is I might be here with my heart just showing him I’m hurting from earlier. And that’s what makes it where you’re not a bypass or trying to pretend to be open, but you’re actually just being with what’s here together. And I love that because I don’t have to turn myself into a faker to guard my body with him.

Lorne Brown

I’m glad you said that because the subconscious sees through all that. So you can’t do spiritual bypass. You can’t fake it. That’s why affirmations often don’t work. You’re saying something, but your tissues, your body, your feelings are saying the opposite

Londin Angel Winters 

Precisely. And here we’re just meeting that moment with courage. Yes.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

So then as we move into the I see, I feel practice one of us becomes the seer and the other becomes the feeler. As the seer I’m seeing into my partner’s experience without my own stuff, fogging up the filter, I’m trying to see my partner with all of my attention over there without my ego in the way I’m just going to see her. So my act of seeing her, and I’ll show you how to do that in a moment, is going to be matched by her act of feeling. So her attention is on her heart and her body and she gives herself permission to feel whatever the experience is. So let’s say we were in one of those situations where I made her wait. I wasn’t ready for a child. And she’s older now and she’s in fear around that situation. And if I were to meet her in the present moment, not arguing why I did that or it was the right choice to make, I’m not in it. I’m in the present moment here right now. How could I use my seeing to love her such that she would feel seen in her experience not judged. So it sounds something like this.

I see, you’re afraid and your heart’s broken because I’ve made you wait for all of these years.

Londin Angel Winters 

I feel devastated because I’m telling myself that by accommodating your needs, I gave up my own.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

I see how deeply you love and how much you want to have a child and life to come through your body and feel your life in a home.

Londin Angel Winters 

I feel terrified because I’m telling myself I might not get it, and I feel hopelessly dependent because I need you to make it happen. I can’t do it by myself.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

I see this is such a scary moment for you because there’s so much uncertainty and I see that I’m here with you now in this moment and I’m here to meet this moment with you.

Londin Angel Winters 

I feel the tension of all the ways I’m trying to control to get what I want beginning to melt because I can feel you’re with me.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

I see the woman I want to be with no matter what

Londin Angel Winters 

And I feel reassured because I love you.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

So this is a very real moment. In fact, there was probably a time in our relationship that sounded a little like this. Now what’s happening in real time without us referencing the past or arguing about who’s right or wrong or referencing a story, we’re just seeing what’s true in this present moment. I’m seeing her, she’s expressing what she feels. What that does is it starts to create a sense of a shared reality where this sense of difference starts to melt away. And the moment we get to an experience of a shared reality where we’re seeing and feeling is matching the other person in that moment, trust starts to blossom. The experience of love starts to come back online. And so it’s this foundational practice of I see. I feel that when there’s resentments or losses of trust, this is the practice we come to.

Londin Angel Winters 

For example, why not do this practice before you make love to make a baby,

Right? We’re already very bonded. We do this every day, but just even in these however many minutes we just did that my body is already such a yes to him because I feel so considered, I feel safe with him. If he were to make love to me right now, it would be very easy for me to let down my guard all the way through my cervix where there’s no pain, there’s no tension, it’s just a yes. And so even a simple practice like this as an opening ritual to love making, we’ve seen through thousands of couples, it creates union and union makes babies.

Justin Patrick Pierce

And not only does it create union, it creates the deepest kind of intimate experiences you’ve ever had because you start learning to make love in this way with your whole body and heart included in the process. You start to feel it and experience intimacy at a depth that suddenly it’s like seeing the matrix. You can’t go back anymore and you just know that there’s depth of love that’s available for you if we have the courage to show up and meet our partner in this way. In the present moment,

Lorne Brown 

I want to unpack this and I have follow-up questions. So thanks for that demo. And we do this on YouTube. So for those that are listening through the podcast, check out the YouTube Conscious Fertility podcast for this episode. If you want to have a visual of what they were doing there. I always like to, I have this model of notice, accept, choose again, that I realize so many people that have these really awesome practices are doing. And so I kind want to unpack from all the interviews in my experience what I’m observing, as you said Justin tasting here. So one is just this idea. I see you and you talked about how we entrain just for those that have some doubt. We have multiple podcasts by physicists, PhDs. Dr. Bill Bengston did a beautiful job on this as well, where they have research where they’re looking at healers in the healie that when two individuals come into a room, your autonomic nervous system syncs up.

So you talked about your arms crossed, you can either separate or join, right? And so when somebody feels seen or heard that they feel loved and love is the energy of healing. So the mere fact that you are seeing them, Byron Katie has this thing called the Byron Katie sandwich. For those that have read Byron Katie’s books, first thing is you got to see them. Then you can do your truth and bridge the seen is key. Seen doesn’t mean you agree with it. You’re just letting the person know, I get that you think and feel this way. And then when you say, get into the feelings, not doing the spiritual bypass. So when Londin was saying how she felt, she wasn’t giving him sweetness like you’re forgiven all this stuff. She was saying how she felt. And when you can, there’s the accepting part. So notice, accept the accepting part if we’re not saying you like you to resign to it, but when you can be authentic and feel your feelings, those uncomfortable feelings can act as portals to presence.

And again, that’s where what we would call in our world, miracles can happen. So that’s what I witnessed when you guys were sharing. That is of course if you make eye contact and you start to breathe, that is you’re like wifi. So a part of you that you’re not, unless you’re awake and conscious, but most people aren’t conscious of is connecting. And we have research on this from Healer and Healy that something happens, right? There’s a sync up for this. What about the couple where the other is not open willing or ready or they’re not open, willing, ready to ask them what kind of support self-work do you guys recommend so they can change their vibration, model it, and as you said Londin, that you were doing this and then eventually there was a shift with Justin, right? He was dating other women and then you guys came back to be the relationship that you are. So for those out there that are like, that’s not my guy, so what can I do? They also want to feel peace and enjoy their lives and have a baby.

Londin Angel Winters 

Even if your man is doing this with you or he’s not. I would recommend everyone has an inner marriage practice of I see I feel every day in the mirror or yet it doesn’t require a mirror, but where your feeler needs a seer. So I’m always doing, I see I feel by myself just because my inner marriage is going to be expressed in the outer. I do it on a practical level and have a better relationship with Justin. But if you didn’t have a man who wanted to play, a lot of my clients have men who don’t want to play one. I see. I feel even a five minute I see, I feel, and their feeler can relax in the arms of their seer because in the end, what are you bringing together? You’re bringing the witness to the one experiencing this life. And when that feeler is witnessed, and if you are really landing your seer in the place of pure presence, you never have to feel abandoned in life again.

Is it hard not to have the love you want? Yeah, because we’re love driven beings. We want to be living that fantasy that we were sold as little girls. We want that, but that doesn’t mean you ever need to spend one more day in the desert. And I’ll promise you, I have a teacher that used to say, you’ve never felt lonelier than in a relationship because now you have the expectation of being met. And if you’re not met, it hurts worse. And that’s totally true of what I see in my clients. It doesn’t matter if they have a man or not, nobody feels met. But when you’ve got that I see, I feel going on a daily basis and you’re literally immersed in the sacred union of inner marriage between your alpha and your Omega energies. You are so alive and so fully present in the moment, in the full spectrum of your being that it gets much easier to interact with the other. Whether it’s the same sex opposite, sex doesn’t matter, same sex relationship, opposite sex relationship doesn’t matter. It’s so much easier to turn to the world and be available for love. When you are rested in that union,

Justin Patrick Pierce 

Would you demonstrate for a few moments an internal I see, I feel practice so they could all get a sense of what that sounds or looks like?

Londin Angel Winters 

Yeah. Would you like me to do that?

Justin Patrick Pierce

That’d be great.

Londin Angel Winters 

Okay, so I’m going to demonstrate it. Sometimes it’s hard to start in the mirror because it can bring a lot of projections. So I’ll just show you an eyes closed one. I feel nervous because I’m being watched and I’m afraid of making a mistake. I see you being very vulnerable right now and how much you love, absolutely love the women that you’re speaking to or walking the same journey that you did. I feel seen, relaxed and loved. I see you are dropping deeper into your body. I feel my face getting softer and my jaw relaxing and I could keep going, but I feel, I know it sounds weird, but I feel just as loved by my own seer as I feel by Justin seer.

Lorne Brown

I’d love to unpack that a bit for our audience. I really resonate or align with this idea that you shared about how you got to do it for yourself. You can do your own scene. I have a metaphor that I share where we’re all like glasses of water, have my water here and they could be half full. And we’re all walking around trying to get our glasses filled by others, whether it’s through money, through work, through relationships. And if somebody has more water than you, they feel really good because they’re filling up your glasses, but to them you’re draining them of neediness, it may not feel so good. The key here is to turn on a faucet so you’re filling up your glass without anything outside of you so much that your glass is overflowing. So when somebody comes up to you wanting water from you, you can’t even tell they’re taking your water because your glass is constantly overflowing.

So my philosophy is you do your inner work, so this mirror work or self-work, you see yourself, it’s really cool because this subconscious can’t tell the difference inside it doesn’t know. So it just, again, there’s a part of you that feels seen and heard, and so that self-love creates healing and it shifts you vibrationally. So you don’t need others to see you. You need to see you. And there is a reflection. When you see you, it’s so counterintuitive or paradoxical when you can fully tap into that water and see you, you no longer need them to see you because you’re good and that’s when they see you, but you don’t need it. But when you need them to see you because they’re your reflection, they don’t see you

Londin Angel Winters 

A hundred percent. I love that you just saw that and working with single women, I’m here to say it works like magic.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

And one thing that I want to add for everyone as well is if anyone starts practicing with the ic, I feel practice and you notice your seer or your feeler are particularly unkind to each other, the practice will reveal that. And so when we use this practice, it’s not just like, oh, well you have to just see and feel and magic will happen. No, no, no, no, no. The moment you actually start doing, I see, I feel it will reveal to you what kind of relationship you have internally. And a lot of us who haven’t actually investigated, once we start looking at how we really see ourselves, we can be very critical, very judgmental, very harsh on ourselves. And what’s so important is as you do this practice, let’s say you have a seer who’s quite unkind to you and you say, I see a failure and I see someone who will never be enough. Then what you must do in that moment is as your feeler, you have to take a deep breath in and actually feel the impact of someone seeing you like that. And so take that breath in and feel. What does it feel like for someone to see you like that? I feel crushed and heartbroken

Because of the way you speak so harshly about me. And to me, I feel like I have no confidence in your presence. And just that dialogue is starting now to wake up the nature of that inner marriage. If our inner marriage is hostile, we will project that hostility on our partner and recreate it in different ways and have our chosen partners who will mirror that or make our partner mirror that, because that’s actually the inner dynamic. So what Londin was just sharing with everyone is years of practicing and clearing that relationship, filtering that relationship through practices. So there are people we work with when they first do this, it’s not such a pleasant dynamic they have in that inner relationship between their own seer and feeler. But the practice is to stay in that and to actually feel the hurt. You’re causing yourself to feel the impact, and then begin to make that relationship one of love and trust. But even more than that, in this practice, they draw us into an experience of unconditional love. Because suddenly, if you can feel exactly what you’re feeling and have someone, a seer sees you there and meets you there, you don’t have to be fixed. There’s nothing here you don’t have. You’re not lesser than you are loved as you are. And that radical coming into the moment is presence and then is suddenly met with this experience of unconditional love. And that’s really the heart and soul of this body of work is how do I love another human being unconditionally?

Londin Angel Winters 

You can’t take the fact away that he made you wait.

Justin Patrick Pierce

Right?

Londin Angel Winters

So it’s only inside of unconditional love. That couple could hope to have divine union lovemaking, right? Because we can’t change the hurt.

Lorne Brown 

Yeah. Well, you’re living in the past, you’re fighting with reality. Byron Katie says it well, when you fight with reality, you suffer. And in my process of notice, notice everything’s neutral and we give it meaning neutral. He asked you to wait, you waited neutral. Everything else is through the meaning, through the lens of your subconscious. So when you believe in the story, you make it real meaning when you believe he made me wait, I’m not getting pregnant, and now I’m a failure. That is when you suffer

Londin Angel Winters 

A hundred percent.

Lorne Brown 

So let’s talk a little bit about your books. Your books and books. If somebody was going to read the first book, what’s the takeaway? Awaken Women’s Guide to Everlasting Love. I’d love to hear a little bit about that. And then your latest book Playing With Fire, do you have the practices in there as well?

Justin Patrick Pierce 

Yes.

Londin Angel Winters 

So Awaken Women’s Guide is written for women and it’s essentially the nature of sacred relationships. If you always wanted to be in one, it breaks down how you get there. And it really talks about this idea of practicing fear, beloved, like you don’t wait for the man to live in a sacred relationship. It’s exactly what we’ve been talking about here. You get into a sacred relationship and then you draw him. Now that book is most widely read by women who are already in relationships and wondering how to take it from the doldrums, the gutter of neutrality to something that is really yummy. And so it is literally like a step-by-step of how you bring this kind of presence into that kind of dynamic that led to playing with Fire.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

Yeah, playing with Fire is a book that was written for singles and couples, men and women. And this book outlines the key principles and philosophies of our body of work and sacred intimacy. And there’s a path that you follow each skill, you learn about the I see practice and the importance of awareness and how to cultivate it. You learn about the I feel practice how to cultivate that skill. We learn about equanimity, which is a central teaching in our work. We teach that principle and how we combine our seeing and feeling to create equanimity and from that place how it creates love and trust. And then the book takes us into, okay, how do we spice things up? How do we play with fire? How do we play with desire, but how do we use our desire in a way that actually serves love, such that in our relationship, the longer we’re together, the stronger the trust is, the deeper the love is, but the hotter the passion is with every year goes by. And so a lot of couples feel they have to choose between passion, excitement and functional safety, trustworthy relationships. This book explores how you can actually amplify love, trust, and passion. Every year you’re together and you do that as a spiritual practice. And playing with fire breaks down the exact series of steps with practices outlined in that book that explain to anyone how you can get started and immediately start doing it on your own.

Lorne Brown 

And then you guys offer coaching like one-on-one, so with Londin, with Justin, so men can do some coaching with you, Justin, also with you Londin, and then you guys do some together coaching and retreats as well.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

Yes. Couples work, correct? We’re both coaches. We’ll work individually with singles or couples or we’ll work together with couples as well in our private coaching business. But we’re, most of our students are in our Patreon community. So if you go to patreon.com/yoga of intimacy, we have a monthly women’s group, a monthly men’s group, and a monthly couple’s practice evening. So you can come as a single man, as a single woman or as a couple. And if you come as a couple, we’ll actually be guiding you every month through these practices. So if you sign on through Patreon, you immediately gain access to all of our past calls. So we have years of previous calls and then you’re able to join us live. We actually have a couples call this evening tonight at 7:00 PM we’ll be doing.

Lorne Brown 

And so to find you, we’ll put it in the show notes. So can you say that website again? Patreon

Justin Patrick Pierce 

Patreon.com/yogaofintimacy.

Lorne Brown 

And then you guys have your own websites. We got JustinPatrickpierce.com. We got Londin and Londin is IN, by the way, everybody not like the London, England there. It’s Londinangelwinters.com. So those are the two, three websites. They can look you up. We’ll put your IG  handles down there, your Facebook, wherever they can find you so they can learn more about you as well as your books that are available. Anything else you want to share? We’ll wrap up here, but anything else you want to share? I know we were going to talk more about sex, sex, sex and baby sex. I will say check out their monthly groups that they have. So if you really want to learn this, you have to dive in. And they have retreats and they have books, so we haven’t left you high and dry, as in there’s some really good resources that they offer. So you guys can check that out. Anything you wanted to add or come full circle before we wrap up?

Londin Angel Winters 

Well, the one thing we didn’t get to is that the beautiful part about conceiving, this speaks so much to your mission, but the beautiful part about, for example, and I see I feel by myself leading to a better connection here. I see, I feel leading to a union that creates a conception leading to a pregnancy that I can now meet I see, I feel with that experience, all of that preparing you for being parents, because the number one thing I think our model delivers that we’ve seen repeatedly is you can continue to stay in profound union. Even with a newborn. Even with a toddler. Because once you actually achieve the kid, now you have a whole new set of challenges. And I will say, you can even use all of this in the birth. Justin breathed every single one of my breaths with me for 24 hours. He spooned me for 24 hours, and we did labor together and wow, that’s available women, it was incredible. I wasn’t alone. Actually, he was breathing me down and up creating that flow and receptivity.

Lorne Brown 

I think it’s great he did that, but we’re not going to be that generous. He was with you during your labor, he didn’t be over with you. I bet most women are like, yeah, I’ll trade you, take this paint on and I’ll breathe with you. Yeah,

Londin Angel Winters

You’re right. Because we all forget. We all forget. 

Lorne Brown 

He deserves good credit. I just don’t think he deserves that much credit. As you can see, I advocate for women. I see, right? Yes, the guy is there, you’re supportive. We get a check mark for that, but we didn’t quite go through your experience and we never can know it.

Justin Patrick Pierce 

Well, Lorne, I just want to say I’m really honored to meet you. It’s so cool to hear the way that you break down these ideas and to connect with you on the same page. And it’s really fascinating to hear it from your worldview and the way that you break all of these pieces down. So I really appreciate this conversation with you today.

Lorne Brown 

Yeah, thank you. There’s so many people awakening and doing this work, and this is why my hobby here, this podcast. And so I was expecting kind of going through your materials and learning. It’s like, oh, everybody’s on this journey. And yeah, we may use different language, but at the end of the day, there’s this presence that you experience when you have these glimpses or extended moments that you can’t get from work, you can’t get from money, you can’t get from anywhere. And hopefully more and more of us will access that and more of us can access it for multiple moments. So I’m also honored with the work that you’re doing. I’m glad that we got to connect thanks to our mutual connection for introducing us, and it takes a lot of energy to write a book. You’ve written two of them, and to share your stories and to create the processes that you had so you can reach more people. So thank you for putting that effort in. I know that is no small feat. So well done and thank you.

Londin Angel Winters 

Thank you, thank you.

Lorne Brown 

Hi, Dr. Lorne Brown. I’m the host of the Conscious Fertility Podcast. And if you like this episode, we invite you to post comments like subscribe, because it’s our understanding it helps other people find this episode as

Speaker 4 

Well. If you’re looking for support to grow your family, contact Acubalance Wellness Center at Acubalance. They help you reach your peak fertility potential through their integrative approach using low level laser therapy, fertility, acupuncture, and naturopathic medicine. Download the Acubalance Fertility Diet and Dr. Brown’s video for mastering manifestation and clearing subconscious blocks. Go to acubalance.ca. That’s acubalance.ca.

Lorne Brown

Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Conscious Fertility, the show that helps you receive life on purpose. Please take a moment to subscribe to the show and join the community of women and men on their path to peak fertility and choosing to live consciously on purpose. I would love to continue this conversation with you, so please direct message me on Instagram at Lorne_Brown_official. That’s Instagram, Lorne_Brown_official, or you can visit my websites, Lornebrown.com and acubalance.ca. Until the next episode, stay curious and for a few moments, bring your awareness to your heart center and breathe.