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Join Lorne Brown, each week to learn how to put the “mind” back into “mind-body”, to influence your body and autonomic nervous system, and turn on and off genes for health, longevity, and peak fertility. If you’re struggling to get pregnant, looking for simple tools to tap into the power of your subconscious mind, and birth a life filled with joy, this is the show for you!

Featured Episode

The Bengston Energy Healing Method with Dr. Bill Bengston

 
What if you could boost your fertility chances with the power of the mind and intention??

Bill Bengston is a professor of sociology at St. Joseph’s College of New York and the former president of the Society for Scientific Exploration. Dr. Bengston has been researching anomalous healing methods for over 40 years and has proved himself an expert on the power of energy healing.

Season 1, Episode 8    |    42min

Episode Transcript

Lorne Brown:
By listening to the Conscious Fertility Podcast, you agree to not use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or others. Consult your own physician or healthcare provider for any medical issues that you may be having. This entire disclaimer also applies to any guest or contributors to the podcast.
Welcome to Conscious Fertility, the show that listens to all of your fertility questions so that you can move from fear and suffering to peace of mind and joy. My name is Lorne Brown. I’m a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine and a clinical hypnotherapist. I’m on a mission to explore all the paths to peak fertility and joyful living. It’s time to learn how to be and receive so that you can create life on purpose.
I have with us today on our Conscious Fertility Podcast, Dr. William Bengston. Now Bill Bengston, he is a professor of statistics and research methods at St. Joseph’s University of New York and the president, past president actually, of the Society for Scientific Exploration. And that’s an international group of scientists who study anomalies. And Dr. Bengston has been doing research into anomalous healing for over 40 years, which is why I invited him onto our podcast today. And he has numerous academic publications. His memoir, The Energy Cure, is published by Sounds True Publishers. He also lectures widely in the US, Canada, and Europe. And I have hosted Bill Bengston online as well on my platform. I have had the privilege to attend his Bengston Healing Workshop in person as well.
Now his research has produced the first successful full cures of transplanted mammary cancer and methylcholanthrene induced sarcomas, so tumors, in mice by energy healing techniques that he helped to develop, which we’re going to talk to him about today. He’s also investigated assorted correlates to healing such as EEG and fMRI entrainment and geomagnetic micro pulsation anomalies in healing space. His current work involves the attempt to reverse engineer healing and reproduce healing without the healer. I want to welcome Bill to the show. And Bill, that last sentence, you’re looking to reverse engineer healing and reproduce healing without the healer. I hope you’re successful and I can retire as a healer and go back to my old career as a CPA, as a professional accountant. Welcome to the show, Bill.
Bill Bengston:
I don’t think you can blame me for becoming an accountant again. Yeah, it’s going to be on you. Thank you for the invite.
Lorne Brown:
So the reason I wanted to bring you on for our Conscious Fertility talk, because your research is, first of all, on cancer. It’s not on fertility. And I wanted to have you on because there’s so many people seeking healing, whether it’s for fertility or other things, and your technique is unorthodox. And I thought that if we can let people know on one level that certain things that are told that can’t be cured have been cured with an unorthodox method, then maybe more people will be interested in studying these methods of energy healing to see what else they can do and reproduce what you’ve done. And maybe we’ll open up a whole new paradigm of how we can help ourselves heal.
Bill Bengston:
I strongly encourage people looking into the method and the technique and practicing and testing, and see what works and what does work. It’s not a magical panacea for everything. It seems to do a lot of very interesting things with a lot of conditions. And an unexplored area really, in terms of systematic lab work, has been fertility, which I think would be fascinating to look into.
Lorne Brown:
Can we start with what you have done with cancer? So can you share with the audience what was the research, what did you do, what did you discover, and do you believe what you discovered? Because it sounds pretty out there, amazing results that you’ve gotten.
Bill Bengston:
A whole lot of years ago I ran into a guy who turned into a healer without a teacher, and he fixed my back. I had a chronic bad back so I would be uncomfortable or in pain a good chunk of the time. And he put his hands on my back, and it was the last pain I ever had. And this was confusing to me to say the least because I don’t come to the table as a believer. I come to the table and, yeah, what do you got? Show me. Let’s be skeptical about what you have and what you don’t have.
So I watched in the very beginning, and this is about 90 years ago, I watched in the very beginning this guy put his hands on people and get all sorts of interesting results. Some things worked very fast, some things worked not so much, some things worked, eh, we’re not sure. And one of the interesting things was malignancies responded very, very, very well to this healing technique and benign growths didn’t. So if you have a benign growth and you try this healing technique, not so much happens. You have a malignant growth and you try the healing technique, much happens.
So I watched a few hundred people, and trying to unravel well what was happening in the clinical cases. And it was getting way too complicated. So if you have someone comes in, and they have whatever they have, they come in with X condition, and they get treated with hands on or hands near or hands off, or they get treated and they get better, what did it? I don’t know whether it was time and they were going to get better anyway. I don’t know whether it was something ate or something they didn’t eat. You simply can’t, or at least I can’t, figure out how to unravel this stuff clinically.
So I took the stuff into the lab. In a lab, we can control the environment, you control the dose, you control the lifestyle if you will of whatever it is that we’re studying. You start out looking at the real world, you go into the lab, which is an unreal world. And then hopefully at the end of that, you go back to the world. I started to look into a nice model that everybody knew about. And one of the things I came across was a particular form of mammary cancer. And it’s probably the most studied oncology question out there. There are literally thousands of published papers and peer reviewed journals on a particular mouse model of memory cancer.
And among the things that we care about here is that 100% of the mice will die if they’re injected with a particular cancer, a particular amount of cancer in a particular way. And so thousands of experiments are done, have been done, published about, and all of the mice always die in a month. No mouse has ever lasted past a month. And so what I do is I take something that’s already known, quite well understood, or certainly quite well experienced, and I interject a new variable, single variable, simple variable.
What happens if you take a mouse model and you do everything in the normal biological way, which means the mouse is going to die in a mouth, and you interject healing. And so we interject healing. And what we find is strange stuff occurs when you interject healing into a cancerous mouse. Tumors, instead of continuing to grow, have a tendency to ulcerate. They look ugly. The mice don’t seem to be bothered in any way, shape, or form. The tumors implode and the mice are cured. It’s not a remission because it doesn’t come back. It’s not a suppression of symptoms, it doesn’t come back. The mice are cured for their entire lifespan. And more than that, if the mice are re-injected after they’ve been treated, they can’t get cancer again. And so that becomes a nice model to study because we know what’s supposed to happen. I come along and screw things up, and then we find out what happens when you enter with that single variable.
Lorne Brown:
For your research then, I just got to repeat this because you’ve said it so kind of casually, but to me this is kind of like, what, seriously? You’ve taken mice, you’ve injected them causing cancer. This is not you having invented this idea. This is done in research where they invent mice-
Bill Bengston:
Routinely. Routinely.
Lorne Brown:
.. with cancer to study cancer, and they always die. And you go in and you have this healing technique which we’re going to get into. And this healing technique, these mice are cured, meaning the cancer goes away. They’re immune to it. When you inject the mice again with the cancer causing agents, they don’t get cancer. And this has been published. So this isn’t anecdotal. And this study has been done at numerous med schools and it’s been reproduced numerous times, and people can go and look at this research.
Bill Bengston:
I think we have six medical schools and three other independent biology labs looking at this. It’s been published all over the place. You can read some of my technical publications at bengstonresearch.com. So there’s, I don’t know, maybe 25 or 30 papers on reserve there that if you want to look at geeky things. But what you just summarized was essentially what happens. And I just finished in Tokyo, my 19th and 20th mouse experiment. So the research goes on.
And what we find is that it’s no longer interesting a question to say do you think healing is real or do you think it has potential? Or something along those lines. It’s not an interesting question anymore. Healing happens. And the question is how do we uncover its process? How do we uncover the thing that stimulates it the most? Where can we take this? And so we’ve looked at what happens to the healer, what happens to the healee? We’ve hooked people up to EEGs and functional MRIs. We’ve hooked up all sorts of probes and put them in the room, and looked to see if there are changes in the physical space. We’ve tested to see if distance matters, what does belief matter. You know can just keep going on and on. But no longer is it interesting does healing happen.
Lorne Brown:
In the summary, can you tell us what happens to the healee, the person receiving, and what happens to the healer, the person who’s intending or giving the healing?
Bill Bengston:
The healer and healee, I use already existing tools and toys and stuff that you’d find in a lab. And when I do EEG work, or I do functional MRI work, we have a tendency to build toys that looks at the brain.
We have a brain fetish. And so we don’t have an equivalent anything to look at gallbladders. So we don’t have something to look at a pancreas. So we can measure in some detail stuff that’s going on in the head because we think the head’s important. And so we’ve made all sorts of gimmicks and gizmos that’ll look into what’s going on.
I just apply that to healing. And when I have a healer and I have a healee, even if they’re separated by some distance, their brains go into essentially entrainment. They start to resonate together. So the two brains move together, the hearts go together, the hearts go into entrainment. So our heart beats will entrain regardless of distance and our brains will entrain regardless of distance. And that goes on without anybody trying to do that. Simply the act of healing and the act of healing, wanting to be healed, not believing, just wanting to be healed, seems to set up an entrainment pattern of some sort. And that’s worth continuing to look. We don’t know what else is involved in the entrainment. So again, brains go into entrainment, hearts go into entrainment. We have toys that look at hearts and we have toys that look at brains. I think we probably find similar stuff if we look at gallbladders and livers sync and all that stuff syncs.
Lorne Brown:
There’s a connection then that’s happening between the healer and healee. You’re not separate then. There is something happening that with our five senses we may or may not observe. And I say that in the sense that some people aren’t sensitive, or I should say some people are super sensitive that they may feel it. But with this sensitive equipment, you are able to at least measure in the brain and the heart that there’s a connection or connectivity happening between the healee and healer. Is that what I’m understanding?
Bill Bengston:
You’re exactly right. It’s not a question of going down the street going, oh, Bengston is thinking of me now. That would be a pathology in and of itself. So what you have is it’s not a conscious thing any more than if I hooked up an EKG, and you went from 70 to 72 beats a minute. Most people, unless they’re obsessed with their heart, wouldn’t know that had occurred. If there’s a change in an output of the brain, you don’t know that that occurs, and you’re not trying to do it. So this isn’t an effort to get in sync with someone else. Getting in sync with someone else happens as a result of wanting to heal.
Lorne Brown:
So this leads me to some questions around the method. When we train together, when I took your workshop, and again I’ve done this twice, it’s a four day process of learning your technique and practicing your technique. And so we’re not going to do that today on our podcast because we’re not going to put four days into the podcast.
Bill Bengston:
You can talk very fast.
Lorne Brown:
I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. However, I do want to unpack kind of my understanding of this process with you. With the Bengston Energy Healing Method, there is a key component to it that
you call image cycling. I would like us to talk a little bit about it. And when I was learning it and reading about it, it reminded me a lot of manifestation processes. And that’s really of interest to our listeners because, in Conscious Fertility, a big part of our discussion is baby manifestation. How can you receive life on purpose? How can you use your intention to help optimize your fertility, for example? Would you describe your image cycling as a form of manifestation or as a technique for manifestation?
Bill Bengston:
Yeah. And it’s interesting, a whole bunch of people have told me that I have a manifestation technique. And I wasn’t trying to create a manifestation technique. I Just kind of stumbled upon it. And I guess it’s a manifestation technique in the sense that there seems to be an interesting coincidence about the things that you want that you get when you do this technique. I can’t say X causes Y. That’s crazy talk. But I’ll just say it’s… I got to be pretty conservative about the stuff I claim. But it seems to be pretty good… In those terms, once I wrap myself around what manifestation might mean, I would say, yeah, it probably ought to be considered a manifestation technique.
Lorne Brown:
In your image cycling technique, you encourage people to come up with a list. See how many images you can create. It can be about health. Because what are the things that people want, money, health, wealth, love, relationships. In this technique you share and teach, in my experience, it’s simple but not easy. And I say simple that anybody can learn it, but it’s not easy. It’s not like I want, I get. You have to practice this technique, it’s a mastery.
Bill Bengston:
My techniques are pretty annoying. As you say, they don’t just master it in five minutes kind of a thing. It’s a practice. Which means the practice means you keep going and you keep practicing, and you see where it leads. It is somewhat effortful. And I’m told there are manifestation techniques out there that you can manifest anything instantly, yadda, yadda, yadda. They’re better than me if they can do that. This isn’t magic. It’s something that’s researchable, something that produces interesting phenomena. I’ve taken up a whole bunch of lab time trying to get to the bottom of what heaven’s name does this thing really do.
Lorne Brown:
This is where I’m curious. Because in your energy healing technique, the healer does this technique called image cycling, and then they intend the healing. And that seems to be, I’m simplifying it, but that’s kind of what it looks like from inside upside observer. And I get curious for our listeners because you could just do the image cycling for yourself if you’re looking to manifest stuff. Again, your fertility, a baby. And so that’s my first step is just, I know you have no data on this, so I got to clarify, Dr. Bengston has lots of data on this technique for cancer.
Bill Bengston:
And some other stuff.
Lorne Brown:
And other stuff. Okay. What are some of the other stuff? But we don’t have it on reproductive health at this point.
Bill Bengston:
We don’t have it on reproductive health. I’d probably be better off just leaving it there that I don’t know really an outcome, I don’t have a predictable outcome for reproductive health though there’s a handful of folks who have used this for that that I’m aware of, and anecdotally interesting things seem to have occurred.
Lorne Brown:
And so with this imaging cycling, this what I’m saying is like a manifestation technique, because I’ve incorporated concepts of it in my manifestation process, I think it would be interesting using it because I don’t see a downfall. I guess that’s my point. Because if you have a list of things that you want to manifest, you want them. So if they manifest, you’re happy they’ve manifested.
Anecdotally, I’ll share with you that after we did our workshop together, I did my list and I practiced it. I know two things in a very reasonable amount of time, not a long time, manifested. When Elon Musk came out and said he had the Tesla Model Y coming out, it wasn’t built yet, I wanted that. And then after doing your technique, the car still wasn’t being delivered yet, but I knew they were making them. I was like, geez, I would really love that Model Y. And so I used your imaging. That was one of my images in it. And I won’t share what we do with it. That’s a fun process to learn. But I use the cycling technique for that as part of my manifestation.
And I have another company that I wanted a certain sum of money in the bank account for it. Not a reasonable amount either. It wasn’t something I thought I could get. Lo and behold, I have the Model Y Tesla in my driveway, and that amount appears in my bank account. Things happened. And I was like, hey, all right, this is pretty cool. That’s why I’m thinking that if you’re doing this technique, regardless if everything on the list does not appear if you get some, you’re still going to be pretty happy that some of those things on your list appear. So I don’t see a downfall in practicing this.
Bill Bengston:
I don’t either. Other than it’s annoying.
Lorne Brown:
It is annoying. Yes.
Bill Bengston:
You don’t wave a magic wand and everything is done. It teaches a little bit of self-discipline too because you mentioned everybody wants, everybody wants, and they want to be happy and they want to be healthy. And the image cycling has nothing to do with vague generalities like that. So your example is a good one as distinct from being happy. So everybody says, “I want to be happy.” Well, that has no meaning. It has no recognizable goal. If suddenly I’m happy Tuesday, does that mean I’ve achieved happiness, and now I’m happy in perpetuity? Or you’re sometimes happy, sometimes not. And so same thing is true incidentally with health. If you say, “I just want to be healthy,” does that mean there’s no aches, no pains? Does that mean there’s no bugs? Does that mean there’s no viruses? It doesn’t have a meaning. Everybody’s got something. Everybody goes up and down in terms
of their emotions. Everybody goes up and down in terms of a lot of things. And so we don’t deal with things that are vague generalities like happiness and health. We deal with very concrete things that you should be able to observe or not observe.
So you want a Tesla. And the question is, do you have a Tesla? Well I can recognize whether you have a Tesla a whole lot differently than I can you recognize when you’re happy. You’re happy, man, I mean I don’t know what happens, but Tuesday you got a Tesla, and Tuesday it’s sitting in the driveway. This technique deals only with recognizable, testable, if you will, observable phenomenon that you would want such as, I want a Tesla, I want a kid. You have a kid, you don’t have a kid. It’s not I just want to be happy and go around with a big smile on my face. Did I get the kid? Did I get the Tesla? Did I get the money in the bank? Did I get the whatever it may be? But it’s observable, it would be visualizable as it were. You could visualize the Tesla, and you either have it or you don’t.
Lorne Brown:
It’s an important piece that you share there, because in studying different manifestation techniques, including yours and how I do it in my practice, being specific is key. Vague is not good. It doesn’t work. And I speculate, I don’t know, I could not confirm this with data, but I speculate that we’re imprinting something on the subconscious. But I don’t know. I don’t know how to measure that. But that’s how I try to make my brain understand it.
Just to talk about the Tesla, since we got onto the Tesla, and we’ll get into the fertility side of it a bit as well, and why does somebody want something? They want it because they think it’s going to make them happy, right? But as you said, being happy is too vague. So I had this Tesla image. And in it, I could feel the steering wheel. I had all the senses going. I could smell the new smell on the car. I could feel what it drove like when I was in the seats. I could feel the steering wheel.
And for some reason in my imagination, Bill, I washed my car a lot. I imagine myself washing my Tesla. And just as you’re saying this, what’s funny, I just realized, I wash my Tesla a lot. So much so that I realize my neighbor came over to me and said, “You really love that car.” And I go, “Why do you think that?” He goes, “Because you’re always washing it.” Right? So there’s something. I didn’t even realize I was always washing it. When I say wash it a lot, once a week I wash the car, right? It’s a meditation. Literally when I wash it, it’s just a meditation. I sit there, I got some headphones on, I take my time, I’m washing it, drying it, and it’s an enjoyable experience for me. Dirty or not, I just like to do it. But that was part of when I was practicing my manifestation for the Tesla part, that’s what I was doing. So I just wanted to share that part. As Bill says, you just can’t say I want to be happy. It has to be specific. And then I want a Tesla. Well you got to communicate to, I don’t know what we’re communicating to, I call it the subconscious, but you got to imprint it. And there’s different techniques that Bill teaches in his programs on how to do that. So just thought I would share that little story. I used washing my car as part of my process in my image cycling. And I realized I washed my car a lot now that I actually have it. So much so that it’s bothering my neighbor that he sees me washing it all the time that he had to make a comment, “You love that car.” Almost like it was like a judgment. You’re loving that car too much because you’re washing it too much.
Bill Bengston:
He was probably offering you a 12 step program to stop washing your Tesla.
Lorne Brown:
Exactly.
Bill Bengston:
You get into it easy. I’ve lost the power to control my Tesla.
Lorne Brown:
And so for those that have listened, or listened to some of the podcasts I have on baby manifestation, we always ask the question when I see my patients one on one is why do you want the baby? As in what’s it going to bring to you? What feelings? How will you know that the baby’s arrived? How will you be different? How will you feel differently? And then bring in the experience of the baby. If somebody wants a baby and they want a new car, I think you shared with me off camera, off audio, you’re saying there’s a car seat in the Tesla, or a car seat in the Porsche, right? This is the big, big part of this process that I invite people to look more into.
We mentioned how this is an annoying technique, you said. It’s annoying. It takes practicing, mastering, memorization. It’s not like I want, I get. There is a process to it. It’s simple. Anybody can learn it, but it is not easy. That’s why not everybody is disciplined to learn this technique. The question I have, which I’m a bit curious about, is you had many healers, it wasn’t just you, in your research do the healing on the mice. Which means they had to learn this image cycling technique. And I think in your research, and it was either in your book or in your workshop, you shared that a lot of these people were not believers. They thought this was nonsense. They didn’t want to do this. Is that correct? You got some people that were kind of skeptics that were just like this is silly for me having to do this, hold my hands over a cage of ice.
Bill Bengston:
I handpick the people who took part in replication of this stuff. And I have a tendency only to pick skeptics just because I myself am a skeptic. I don’t default to belief. I test. I find out am I thinking about things the right way or not. Believers have a tendency not to be open to new things. And regardless of what they believe, because they spend most of their time reinforcing their own beliefs. So believers come in various flavors. If we’re talking about my stuff, a believer could say, “Everything he’s saying is true.” That’s a believer. Another form of believer is everything he says is wrong. If you come at this already knowing that I’m wrong, you’re a believer. If you are coming at this thinking everything I say is right, you’re a believer. A skeptic is someone who says, eh, I don’t know. Let’s find out. Let’s test, let’s be open. A skeptic will tend not to have the arrogance to know everything about the way the world works.
Lorne Brown:
So I want to play a bit of a skeptic. So I’m not a believer or nonbeliever. And I have a question for you that if these individuals were skeptics, meaning they weren’t gung ho to do this technique of image cycling while intending healing to these mice in a cage, hands around the cage, how did you get them to learn this technique? Because I wanted to learn how to do manifestation, and I wanted to learn how to incorporate this, which I have, into my practice for healing. I was motivated, I wanted to do it. And man it was hard to learn this technique.
I still think I’m lousy at it, to be honest. I don’t know how to tell if I’ve master it or not except for, hey, I got a Tesla in my car and my bank account says that. I still think I can’t do it. But I’m like, oh, I got that,
I got that. So the question I have is how did they do it? Because if I was a skeptic and I was recruited to do this study, and I had to put all that effort in, I may say, you know what, Bill, I’m not interested in being in your experiment. This is too much work. So how did you get them to do it? And can you actually measure that they’re doing image cycling?
Bill Bengston:
The answer to the second question is simple. No. I don’t have a cyclometer. I don’t have a healometer. I love to. I’m actually working on a different experimental models to see if I can come up with a healometer or a cyclometer that’s nice and simple and reasonably reliable. So far I have to say I don’t have one that fulfills all my requirements. But how did I get them to do it? I approached people based on just a gut feeling like here’s someone who seems to be interested in the world. When I would speak to someone, if they had a history of knowing or reading about healing, I excluded them from my subject pool because I didn’t want people again who are believers, who are trying to fit whatever I’m doing into whatever they think the world works.
Then I’d say, okay, well maybe we have a candidate here because what am I talking about? Well, they’re interested. They don’t believe this stuff. I sit down, I say, “Here’s the deal. You’re going to have to work for a whole bunch of weeks practicing an annoying technique. And then we’re going to give you a cage of cancerous mice.” And they look at me like come on, really. What do you want me to do? A good number of my subjects not coming from a background of being a healer or studying healing have actually thought that I was doing studies on them in gullibility. A lot of them got cages of mice, cured the mice, and then got real upset because they didn’t believe the stuff. And a handful of people have done it more than once. Most people have only done it once, and they get scared and run away.
Lorne Brown:
The scared and runaway thing is interesting. You’re talking about the healer. I want to talk about the healee. There’s a two part set up for this. One is interesting that when people come for conscious work in my practice, and we do, and I use this term baby manifestation loosely, they start off with they want a baby. So we go through the process of what does the baby represent and how would you know if you have it? So there’s a whole what I call subconscious work or energy psychology conscious work.
By the third session, they’re not even focusing on the baby actually. It’s funny how they’re working on other things. It’s interesting how that happens. But by the fourth session, I would say more people run away than stay in my practice. So they’re having some cool results, and then there seems to be a freak out. They either don’t come back for a while. They come back often, but not for a while. They stop in the middle of it. Or when they come in for that fourth or fifth session they say, “You know what? I’m really tired today. Can we not do the conscious work today? Can we just do a relaxation session?” I remember you alluded to this as well. Do you see people freak out when your healers are doing the healing, if I can use that correctly? What happens to the healing in your research and anecdotally?
Bill Bengston:
I would agree with you that a good chunk, I don’t know what the fraction would be, but a good chunk of people, they start getting better at whatever they have, and they run away. This is among the reasons that I ended up going into the lab. The mice don’t run away. The people run away. So someone will show up, and say, “Could you treat me,” or fix me or whatever it might be. And if they’ve come to a healer, they’ve probably failed in a whole variety of other approaches. So they’ve gone with traditional folks in white coats, and that didn’t do it. And then they go and do a different color coat.
And then they, and then they, and then they, and then they. And you’re exhausting all possibilities. And when you get to the bottom of the barrel you go, “Well, let’s try a healer.”
Now what happens if the healer heals? That’s not necessarily anticipated. And frankly my experience, without putting a number on it, is that a good chunk of people, by the time they get to going to a healer, they’re already chronically ill with something. They have a tendency to become comfortable with their chronic illness. And if someone comes along and takes it away, that can actually be experienced as a loss. I started out, I need whatever it is healed healed. And now I’ve been running around now for years, and now suddenly maybe this thing works. What if this thing works and the world is thrown upside down. Mice happily come back, get healed, they’re happy, I get a thank you card from them and they move on. Cell cultures do the same thing. People are confounding.
Lorne Brown:
It’s interesting though that you’re saying this, and thank you. When you’re seeing people make some progress early through their self-reporting, or things that they can measure and then they stop, I used to take it personally. Like man, what’s going on here? It’s interesting to hear that this is something that you experience. And we don’t know why, but we can speculate or think. And as you said, there’s a loss. And I think you once shared that people become identified sometimes with what they have. And to take it away, it’s uncomfortable.
And I don’t think it’s a conscious thing. This is why I always like to use the term loosely, it’s your subconscious programming that’s self-sabotaging. And again, not as a judgment or to criticize. I do it all the time. When I see an outcome, I’m curious where that program was running that I was not obvious of it. Why is it subconscious? Well because I didn’t know it was running. If I knew it was running, it would be conscious. They come to my practice, and they come to listen to the podcast, or they come to you because consciously they want something. They think they want something. But then there’s another program running that says maybe not.
Bill Bengston:
Yeah, what happens if I’m fixing this? So I can give you some extreme cases just for the purpose of illustration. One person, when I used to do people, now I farm them out to people who’ve taken my workshop and trained. It makes my life a whole lot easier. I can play with rodents and they get to play with people. I got the better deal. Anyway.
Lorne Brown:
I invite them to persevere lightly. And the reason is is I have a bias. They’re paying me for the healing. I have a practice. And so I feel there’s a conflict for me to be forceful to say push through. But if they’re listening to this podcast which is free, and you’re seeing somebody that’s doing conscious work, manifestation work, or a healing technique, and you’re feeling like you want to run with no good reason, or sometimes there’s a good reason to run. For one is if they say they have a 100% cure rate, often that’s a good person to run from. Often, not always.
Bill Bengston:
That right. I can teach anything instantly. That’s right. Yeah.
Lorne Brown:
Run. But when you just feel like I don’t want go or I’m tired, or you have all those excuses, reconsider would be my suggestion because you may be getting in your own way of what you want subconsciously.
Bill Bengston:
And healing can be traumatic. We had a patient a bunch of years ago who was severely, severely, severely, severely depressed. And all medications had failed, and they basically sat around staring and did this for decades, and couldn’t get them out. And I was brought a patient like this by someone I knew who’s a clinical psychologist. Said, “We’ve tried everything. Nothing seems to work. And they’ve basically been staring for a couple of decades.” We did the treatment, and the person no longer is staring and came out of it and became excited with life. But now, it’s 20 years later. That’s traumatic. It sounds wonderful. Oh boy, you did a long term depressive.
But what happened to your life and what happened to you go from sitting in the corner not doing anything to now suddenly the world is interesting to you? But now it’s a different year. I don’t know how to fit. I don’t know how to fit anymore. If you’re staring in the corner, you have a role. If you’re jumping up and down, you have a role. If you’re taxi driver, you have a role. But what does this person have a role doing? So it’s not necessarily, oh, isn’t that wonderful they got fixed. Yeah, but there’s more to it than that. You got to integrate them back.
Lorne Brown:
The reason I like your energy healing technique is the big part of it is the image cycling, which I believe is a manifestation technique. So you don’t have to be interested in healing others. You could just do the image cycling technique as a technique to manifest.
Bill Bengston:
Cycling is a way of life, going around. I mean as you say, what’s the downside? You get stuff you want, and you can change your list to make whatever you want. You rub the magic lamp and you get another wish. It’s not too shabby a deal. It’s not a healing technique. But the technique can be used to heal and people who heal should be doing the technique.
Lorne Brown:
I’d like to ask you a few questions if you’re willing to share about the image cycling technique. What do you think or say for people that don’t want to do it because it’s too much work? What’s your thoughts on that? Because you come across that I’m sure in your workshops, or that may be somebody’s response. How do you respond to that?
Bill Bengston:
If you don’t want to do it because it’s too much work, it’s simple to me, don’t do it. I’m not on a mission to save the world. If you want something for yourself, this seems to be a pretty good way to do stuff, and incorporate it into your life. After an initial attempt to learn it, with all its frustrations, it gets easier over time. And just as you learn any new skill, it takes practice. So again, you don’t snap your fingers, everything is done.
The question to me, to my ears anyway, is absolutely identical if you said, I’m responding now to Wimbledon going on, so I want to play tennis and I want to play tennis at Wimbledon. Okay, that’s a don going on, so I want to play tennis and I want to play tennis at Wimbledon. Okay, that’s a specific goal. You either do or you don’t. But I guarantee you, you’re not going to pick up a racket and manifest a Wimbledon appearance in a day. You’re going to have to learn a little bit. You’re going to have to practice a little bit. You’re going to say, “But I don’t want to practice.” Okay, well you’re not going to make Wimbledon. It’s just it’s not going to happen.
So you have to decide what do you want? Do I really want to learn how to play tennis? In which case you’re going to put in some time. Hopefully you’ll have fun when you’re doing it, but you’re going to put in some time. If you want to learn image cycling, you’re going to put in some time. Not as much as going to Wimbledon. And if you don’t want to play tennis, don’t play. If you don’t want to manifest stuff using this technique, don’t do it.
Lorne Brown:
It’s been part of my experience when people come that I think some of the impression is I’m going to come and Lorne will wave his arms around me, couple acupuncture point needles, little bit of low level laser therapy, and boom, everything’s done. And I send them home with homework. There’s things they got to do. I’m the guide, I’m giving them the tools. But they have to master the tools, and that’s where I share a lot of people fall off. It’s easy for everybody to start. It’s like a marathon. Anybody can start a marathon. It’s can you finish the marathon, right? That’s the challenge. And you need to usually have to train to finish that marathon. But anybody can sign up pretty much and start a marathon.
Bill Bengston:
And different people come up with different ways to keep going. So there’s practice groups, there’s self-help groups that get together and do this stuff amongst themselves. So that works for some people, not for others.
Lorne Brown:
And I used to take it personally again, my program, I’m not good enough or how I’m failing, not doing it well enough for them. I’m not inspiring them enough. And then I remember something you had shared with me that if they’re not interested in learning this technique, then you’re not interested in them. They have to be interested in it. And I’ve once heard the saying that they have to want it more than you do. The healee has to want it more than the healer in a sense. Meaning they got to be able to be ready and willing to do the work. Because the healer is not going to be able to do the work for them so much in this cycling technique anyhow. You’re going to have to be the one to practice. And in my style as well. I’m not one of those gifted people where I can shake my fingers and you get what you want. I can teach you how you can shake your fingers, but you’re going to have to go and practice that technique.
We’ve had you online before, but could I interest you in an image cycling technique for baby manifestation to teach people how to do the image cycling technique. And with the intention that we know that a lot of the audience are going to be people interested in manifesting a baby. I think we can open it up to anybody, Bill. People want to manifest whatever they want in their life, it’s just to learn the cycling technique. Is that something that we can talk off air and then let people know at a later date?
Bill Bengston:
I don’t need to be off air for the idea. The idea’s a good one. And the reason it appeals to me is because you have a concrete outcome that you want. We can know whether we’re successful or not, and we can image it. And we really do want it. So presumably the participant’s having some difficulty with fertility. They don’t want the difficulty infertility. And the ones that do want the difficulty infertility will drift away. But the ones who really want to overcome fertility problems, we can image it, we can cycle it. I think it’d be interesting to play around with.
Lorne Brown:
Excellent. So we’ll talk more about this, and then you’ll check the podcast notes, and hopefully we’ll have something on there to direct you to learn more about that as well. Any closing remarks around just the Bengston Healing Method? Anything you want to share from your vast research about energy healing, about manifestation, or image cycling? Where’s the research going? What are you doing now? What can we look for with respect to data?
Bill Bengston:
Well, the stuff I’m doing now is concentrated, though not exclusive, it’s concentrated on trying to reproduce the healing without the healer. So there are inexhaustible supplies of people who need help out there. And regardless of what they need help with, so they have pain, condition, a disease, something missing. Who knows? And even if we train a bunch of people to do hands on or hands near or hands around healing, there’s just too many people out there.
And so I want to move healing from something unconventional, and it’s clearly unconventional, to something that’s conventional. And if it’s going to be conventional, it has to be able to be reproduced and it has to be able to be mass produced. So the questions I have are can healing be stored in material? And the short answer is yes. So I’ve got a variety of experiments that healing can be stored, healing can be recorded, and the playback of that recording will produce really interesting phenomena.
And again, I have academic papers which are kind of geeky, but you’ll see for example, in an experiment in recording healing, we’ve looked at 167 genes, and found reliably 68 genes change exposed to a healing recording. And cancer cells will change genomically if we play to them a healing recording. If we play to them a recording, we get something. If we charge material like cotton, or we charge material like water, we get interesting healing phenomena.
And the question is, can we make this so elegantly storable that it becomes scalable. A recording is scalable. If I ever get the technology down, and I’ve made some progress, if I ever get the technology down, I could upload a healing recording into the cloud. You download it if you want to be treated. Then people are going to flock to it. They’re not going to be scratching their heads and wondering about this and confusing healing with, I don’t know, some spiritual practice, or something along those lines. It’s healing. It’s a natural phenomena. The question is can we understand the patterns?
Lorne Brown:
We said we were closing off here, you just said something that I’d love some clarification. First of all, what you just said is both exciting, but also makes my brain hurt. Recording? You can record healing? And we don’t have the time to get into that discussion, but we got to have you back to talk about that. Because it makes my brain hurt because that’s kind of way outside how we understand science and everything today. However, I know you guys have data. So I always say there was lots of smart people
that thought the world was flat, and then a few people came around saying it was round. And I think a few of them were killed for that thought and that idea. And now today we just cancel them. We don’t physically kill them, we just cancel them. But look at the world’s change. And so being open-minded, I’m curious. I have to say it seems unbelievable. So can’t wait to-
Bill Bengston:
I agree. I agree.
Lorne Brown:
… see the data. Look at this data. It’s healing. It’s nothing spiritual. Can you touch a bit about that? Because a lot of the healers, or people go to healing, there is a lot of ritual, spiritual, even religious connotation around it. And I don’t get that from how you share your stuff. It’s kind of like it’s gravity. It’s just there. There’s no spiritual part of it.
Bill Bengston:
Gravity. It’s just gravity. Yeah.
Lorne Brown:
It’s just healing. So do you want to talk on that for a moment?
Bill Bengston:
Yeah, the question about spirituality is an interesting one. And for some reason healing is conflated with spirituality. I’m not a spirituality expert. I don’t know what it means. I can tell you that it doesn’t seem to make any difference what you believe when you’re healing. It matters that you do it. I don’t say I believe in tennis. I play tennis. I don’t say I believe in healing. I play healing. I don’t need to go into trance. I don’t need to go into a special state. In fact, a lot of the people in my experiments are doing other things while they’re treating cancerous mice. Some read books. Some come to the lab with partners so they can sit there and talk about their day stuff, things that are interesting to them. They’re not focused on the healing. You’re not in a zone that is I’m with the mice. You’re just letting healing happen. It’s a natural phenomenon.
Lorne Brown:
This comes into setting the intention, mastering the cycling so you’re not having to think about it. You’re just cycling. You’re just playing tennis. And again, beyond what we’re going to talk about today, I would like to just kind of summarize that you have data on using a healing technique that is unorthodox non-conventional, calling it the Bengston Energy Healing Method at this point in time. And you’ve been able to cure mice. A part of the technique, there’s a two part, there’s the image cycling technique, which it’s a manifestation technique. And then there’s the healing part, which is the setting the intention. Starting off with an intention. That’s how I’m going to simplify it in my head anyhow, Bill. You may disagree. Go ahead.
Bill Bengston:
It works. It works. Simple works.
Lorne Brown:
And we’ve talked about, you think about fertility, and most people that are coming to healers, there could be this desperation. I need to be healed. Desperation, I need to have a baby. And so when we say it’s playful, this idea of image cycling, and it would be fun, I’m not using that word loosely, opportunity to come together with people wanting to have a baby and teaching them the image cycling technique. Because in that teaching process, they’ll learn about keeping it playful and not taking it so seriously. So they may come in desperate and feel like they got to have this baby. And I get that. I understand that. I work with women who are going through this on a daily basis. So I understand that and can respect that and appreciate that. And I think when you study with Bill, you’ll be able to transform and have that shift where you want this baby. And this image cycling and this manifestation technique is something that can be fun, and you’ll want to incorporate it in all parts of your life, not just in your healing.
Bill Bengston:
Oh, absolutely. And as the baby grows up, you’ll still be using it.
Lorne Brown:
There you go. Bill, I want to thank you very much for joining us here on the Conscious Fertility Podcast. I’d like to thank my listeners for tuning in. Check out the show notes for any links where we’re directing you to more information on either Bill Bengston and his books and his workshops. And Bill, I want to wish you well and thanks for joining me for this interview.
Bill Bengston:
Thanks, Lorne.
Lorne Brown:
Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Conscious Fertility, the show that helps you receive life on purpose. Please take a moment to subscribe to the show and join the community of women on their path to peak fertility and choosing to live consciously on purpose. I would love to continue this conversation with you, so please direct message me on Instagram @drlornebrown. That’s D-R Lorne Brown. Or visit my website, lorenbrown.com. Until the next episode, stay curious, and for a few moments, bring your awareness to your heart center and breathe.

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